USB Roundup

**JPuma** · 09-28-2005, 02:06 PM

I am curious to know how many USB devices people are running in their car. This is sort of technical, I need to use it as an anaylsis to see if I should keep trying to make all the USB stuff I have all work together nicely. Or count my losses and keep what evers left of my sanity

I do have a working solution but I had to give up using some items, this is my USB setup:

4 USB 2.0 ports

Port 1 = 1 Extender. The extender is connected to a Belkin hub up front
On the Belkin hub
-Gyration wireless
-Xenarc Touchscreen
-4-1 card reader
-Firefly remote

Port 2 = Audigy 2 NX

Port 3 = Belkin hub
On the Belkin hub
-Diamond PVR600
-BU-303
-IBUS Adatper w/Prolific USB to Serial.

Okay, now with this setup I have nothing but headaches. I had to reduce it to:

Port 1 = Extender
-Gyration
-Xenarc TS

Port 2 = Audigy 2 NX

Port 3 = IBUS Adapter

Port 4 = BU-303

This is a current working solution. my machine boots up fine, the first time and everytime and everything works. Originally I also had a USB dlink wireless that didnt work well in the mix so I had to go pcmcia. I didnt think there would be a problem with so many USB deivce but there is, I have had problems when setting up on the bench.

I have TV and NAvi on my BMW factory system so its no big deal to lose it on the computer but if you only knew the endless nights I spent troubleshooting everthing. I did get close to everything working but at times hardware would just fail or not startup at all. Btw, I gues its worth mentioning I also have XM on com1, a firewire drive and a firewire external hdd for transportable media. All working fine. I also just purchased this http://www45.brinkster.com/eedesignkits/

hopefully it will be more efficent on the USB bus then a USB to serial device.

**replicant** · 09-28-2005, 02:51 PM

How convenient. I'm currently going through some of the same headaches with "not enough usb bandwidth" errors. Some things that would help me would be, upgrade my m10000 to either the mII-12000 with the PCMCIA card slot and the extra up to 8 onboard non-hubbed usb spots, or the faster sp13000 without PCMCIA but with the same 8 onboard non-hubbed usb spots.

A lot of my issues has been all of the hubs, none of which are running of the PC's 5V rail.

I'd love to hear your final decisions as to what to do.

Also, what MOBO are you running?

**JPuma** · 09-28-2005, 03:21 PM

I am using a Sumicom S620, (slimpro sp620 version). I myself wish I had some PCI slots to work with. All my hubs are powered including the extender. I tried an experiment with my hubs and realized it still uses power from the USB port even though the hub has power from another source ( modified a cable and cut the 5V., hub no workie). I am using those oval Belkin hubs and at one point I though they were the shiz for my setup but now I dont know. I am willing to try other hubs. I was also thinking about modifing them so they pull power from the 5V POL and not the PC. But really at this point I am not sure where my problem is coming from and with all the messing around I've done I can only get the hardware listed in my working solution to work. If I add the hubs weird stuff happens like my ibus adapter will not communicate with the vehicle even though the drivers are loaded, GPS will mysteriously unload and reload itself as well as the TV device. If I remove my touchscreen up front the system is more tolarable. This never happened before, at worst...a device wouldnt startup and all I would have to do is unplug it and plug it back in. I even reinstalled my os last night and the only difference from the original install over a month ago was I used a WinXP cd without any service packs inline and then installed sp2. Yesterdays CD had SP2 included.

In my testing I purchased a USB loopback tester from passmark.com and it helped me determine that he intel usb chipset is a pretty good chipset compared to others I tested (like SIS). It also helps identify which device can potentially be a problem in your USB setup like gyration wireless which seems to create quite a bit of recoverable errors. The passmark guy said this could be caused by noise or a cheap cable so I went on a quest to replace the cable(s) in the gyration and purchased a monster usb cable to go from the pc to the belkin hub that the TV, GPS, etc, was connected to. I didnt see any bandwidth improvement, maybe 1mps increase. With all my devices connected my bandwidth was pulled down to 162mbps, It was 360+ with just the loopback and the gyration kb/mouse. Not sure if the hardware like low bandwidth or if theres something else going on. I was thinking of purchasing more USB extenders since the one I have works well and doesent take any power form the pc when its selfpowered. It also has a NEC chip in it.

I havent confirmed that the GPS will work on Port 4 (my last port

) alone. I am assuming it will and that should be enough for me, for now

Oh, I also found new prolific drivers on prolifics website. Both the BU-303 and the USB to serial take this driver. Hopefully I can see some imporvement with the updated drivers alone.

**Will Albers** · 09-28-2005, 03:48 PM

Im having issues with the belkins as well. Already friend one. I cannot get any hubs to function at the end of my extension cables regardless of power supplied.

I have tried various cables and hubs. No difference. Has to be the MB.

**JPuma** · 09-29-2005, 02:54 PM

I've made some prgress last night and learned a little more about my setups behavior. First. the GPS works great as well as long as its directly connected to a usb port on the pc. I bought a kingston usb hub to try, I swear I am gonna have a massive parts selloff at the next carpc meet in the ny area. The system didnt like that usb hub at all. though the system did dectect it the gps device was showing up as unknown. at least the belkin did show the device but freedrive would lose communication with it or it wouldnt work at all. I tried a shorter cable from the hub to pc and noticed it did recognize the gps but like the belkin the device to lose communication with program randomly or not work at all. I then removed everything usb except the hub that connects the gps and added my bmw ibus device to the hub. since I disconnected the extender I wasnt able to use any input devices so I connected via remote desktop to do my troubleshooting. Interesting enough, both gps and ibus worked together on the hub. once I introducted the extender they failed. Audigy was left unplugged, not sure what the outcome would of been but I think the gps and ibus would of worked since now I think the culprit is the extender or its 16' cable legnth.

basically I have a working solution if I leave things as is. I can even have a hub up front on the extender as long as the gps and ibus have direct connections to the usb ports on the computer. I like the fact that the hub works on the extender because I can also use my 4 in 1 card reader up front. I havent throughly tested the addtion of the 4 in 1 card reader just yet, but it does work when I hook it up.

So I still dont see why the GPS device or ibus would fail if I put a hub in between them and the pc vs. a 6" extention just because I have other usb deivces or even just that extender hooked up. BTW, this problem will occur if just the usb extender was hooked up with nothing connected to it. I think I may be picking up noise on the 16' cable of the usb extender. I have it installed going the longest route in my X5. What I am going to do next is run it from center console to rear under the rug and to the back seat and shorten the cable legnth to fit perfectly. I cut probably lose 5'. Either the shear legth of the cable is messing up the USB controllers in a whole or I am getting nosie in the usb cable since its passing a lot of vehicle electronics. I am also planning on getting another USB extender and shortening it to the 7' I need to see if the GPS and ibus will finction on the extender. You're probably thinking what's the significance of the extender. I found that the extender works better then a cable attached to a hub, I couldnt even get devices to work up front when using a usb cable and hub, still being way under the 5meter limit. The extender I prucased uses no power from the computers usb when you have it powered like other hubs say they do and thats been tested.

So my advise to people having problems is try to use an extender when going over 6' of usb cable, especially if you have more then one cable going to hubs in your setup. and try to keep cables as short as possible. Buy 1' cables if a device is really close to the pc or hub.

**Onagrote** · 01-19-2006, 10:38 AM

Thanks! This post was really helpfull as things acted weird when using USB devices (I have the same USB IBUS than you, I think. http://www.eedesignkits.com).

**zerokarma** · 05-31-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by JPuma

I am using a Sumicom S620, (slimpro sp620 version). I myself wish I had some PCI slots to work with.

There is a PCI slot version of that model:
http://www.stealthcomputer.com/littlepc_p4_401_pci.htm

**JPuma** · 05-31-2006, 03:12 PM

but you have to order the system that way and its not easy to just change around. I have since then resolved my usb issues. really what I have found is you can have a lot of usb devices but cables have to be short as hell, devices have to have independant power if allowed and really good usb hubs. I found the belkin oval usb 2.0 hubs to be the best.

**redbullah** · 06-02-2006, 09:20 AM

i have had some troubles with serial to usb reslers v5 ibus kit but this seemed not to work (receiving ok but no sendind). Today i ordered a serial version. I hope this one works and simulates the cd changer.

**bimmerpc** · 09-17-2006, 05:47 PM

Ok
Must add to this thread, I know that many devices are cheap and can cause problems. I have also read alot about usb chip standards that cant be combined, usb powered hub advantages etc... BUT how come I always have some problems with different devices pop out (and in if I replug the device) on usb 2.0....(tested both unpowered/powered hubs)
...When I DONT have ANY problems on the native usb 1.0/1.1 ports when using the exact same external hubs to make all the devices connect.
(hubs both tested unpowered and powered)
I also tried 2 different pcmcia cards for the usb 2.0 bandwidth
This also occurs on my other computer.. devices gets red cross(deactivated) within device manager from time to time after reboot
I have already deactivated the option on my root hubs so that windows doesnt power off the hubs in any circumstances

Does anyone know any diagnostic program like "usbinfo" that doesnt cost 40$ if it´s the cheapest there is for it´s purpose I am soon gonna get it because I have spent like 20 FULL nights configuring my devices, putting them in different order, switching them on and off, replugging, cleaning of device manager, reading faqs etc etc etc etc.... ANYONE?