Night Vision in Car

**Genesisfactor** · 02-19-2006, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by shotgunefx

The first sentence was "Thats my plan. I have the spot picked out and everything.." which was in response to me talking about a HUD.

So I was pointing out what I thought would be issues.

ah...i see. more when conciousness and i meet up with brain power and start thinking again

**shotgunefx** · 02-19-2006, 05:14 AM

Ok, tried to take some screencaps. Couple caveats. The capture board ain't that great and my exeprience using video4linux probably doesn't help. It definitely looks better on the screen.

I ended up hooking the nitemax to the input on my camcorder and then capturing from there. It's god damn cold here, so it was pretty much drive by.

Part of my landlord's property is a tunnel that's about 200ft long and mostly pitch black even with the lights on. I'll see if I can swing by their tuesday and make a little video. Though a little worried about the rats.

**Fusion-One** · 02-19-2006, 07:03 AM

I'm suprised no one mentioned the idea of modifying a webcam to IR. Easier than pie, and it works exceptionally well too.

To do it, you need two things.

1. Webcam
2. Tiny piece of 35mm developed film that is entirely black. (Lets IR pass, but blocks visible light)

You just take a webcam, take it apart, pop out the IR filter, pop the piece of film in with some glue on the edges, put her back together, and you're in business.

With my cheapo webcam, my daytime running lights are almost as bright as my highbeams are when seen through the camera. As far as video quality goes, my only experience is with CMOS.. but it seems to work fine. I get a nice clean (free of noise) image at 388x280@30fps which looks smooth to me, using a webcam that cost me 5$ on ebay. :P

**shotgunefx** · 02-19-2006, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Fusion-One

I'm suprised no one mentioned the idea of modifying a webcam to IR. Easier than pie, and it works exceptionally well too.

To do it, you need two things.

1. Webcam
2. Tiny piece of 35mm developed film that is entirely black. (Lets IR pass, but blocks visible light)

You just take a webcam, take it apart, pop out the IR filter, pop the piece of film in with some glue on the edges, put her back together, and you're in business.

With my cheapo webcam, my daytime running lights are almost as bright as my highbeams are when seen through the camera. As far as video quality goes, my only experience is with CMOS.. but it seems to work fine. I get a nice clean (free of noise) image at 388x280@30fps which looks smooth to me, using a webcam that cost me 5$ on ebay. :P

There's a pretty big difference in picture quality between ccd and cmos in my experience. I have an ir cmos camera, it's going on the inside (into the passenger compartment ,for help identifying theives if I get hit). The one watching my parking lot 24/7 is a decent cmos camera. The quality just isn't as good picture wise.

**iph3w** · 02-19-2006, 10:38 AM

Shotgun, I cant see any of the pics that u posted and also the leeland site is down(thats how i see it and it seems like no one else has the problem).

About the IR LED's i got a bunch and i soldered them up but they are not very strong. I got normal 5mm ones from one of my friends and ran a 2.5v through each(my friend said its got to have between 1.8-2.5) but the light it creates is not much. its got the red glow in the back ground but when i compare it to my Sony Handycam's IR LED its way weaker. I could post a pic of my sony handycams LED. When i turn it on it gives out a bright red light which is way more than my IR LEDs and i can see everywhere with that thing on and there is only one of em in there. are there different types of IR LEDs?

Also I noticed that infront of the Handycam's IR LED there is a lens kinda thing that helps the IR light to brighten up a wider field. could we do that with our IRs? Would it help much? anyone thought about it? I have attached 2types of headlight lenses that I think might help with installing the IRs outside the car. I went to the junk yard and they both sell for like 5 bucks.

**NiteMax Mark** · 02-19-2006, 11:46 AM

About the IR LED's i got a bunch and i soldered them up but they are not very strong. I got normal 5mm ones from one of my friends and ran a 2.5v through each(my friend said its got to have between 1.8-2.5) but the light it creates is not much. its got the red glow in the back ground but when i compare it to my Sony Handycam's IR LED its way weaker. I could post a pic of my sony handycams LED. When i turn it on it gives out a bright red light which is way more than my IR LEDs and i can see everywhere with that thing on and there is only one of em in there. are there different types of IR LEDs?

First off, LEDs are different than many electronic things. Most electronic things are fed a specific amount of voltage and they draw as much current as they need. LEDs are the opposite -- you feed them a specific amount of current and they use as much voltage as they need.

If you take a power supply that provides 2.5 volts and attach it to an LED, there's no way to be sure the right amount of current is flowing through the LED. The LED has a very poor capability to limit the flow of current and you'll either give it too little or damage it with too much. You'll notice that LEDs always have a current-limiting resister in series with them to help regulate the flow of current at a particular supply voltage. If you hooked up a supply directly to the LED without any resistor to limit the current flowing, there's a good chance you damaged it.

IR LEDs are different -- each is made to generate a specific wavelength of light. Most cameras do have an IR blocking filter because thier sensitivity extends beyond the visible spectrum into the IR wavelength. Even though this is true, they are still most sensitive to light that is close to the visible spectrum. You'll find that LEDs with a wavelength approaching 900nm will be barely visible to the human eye and wavelengths in the mid 900's are almost completely invisible. Having said all of that, you'll find that a 780nm wavelength LED will be brightly visible to the human eye and remarkably effective for cameras. At 800nm to 810nm the LEDs won't look brilliantly bright to the human eye, but they will illuminate a scene very well for the camera.

(For comparison, the NiteMax LEDs are 870nm and give off a eerie dim glow.)

Also, LEDs are available with various "half angles." This is the angle where the light intensity is half of what it is in the center. Unless you need an unusually tight beam or an extremely broad beam there's no reason to use a lens.

**quantum** · 02-19-2006, 01:04 PM

I have seen different wavelength specific IR illuminators and filters for flashlights, headlights, etc. The more invisible to the eye (longer wavelengths) the more expensive. The ones that are used by the military are in the mid-900nm range so the enemy doesn't see that eerier red glow coming at them. Mark, is the Nitemax capable of picking up all wavelengths of IR?

Some filters:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/us-night...snvbf-120.html

Originally Posted by GenesisFactor

Any part ouside the cabin exposed to the elements are affected by the elements, and though it would work just fine, so does having the lens inside the cabin, as i found out yeterday, IR on or not. The IR illuminator part is what you want outside so it doesn't get him by the relfection, refraction, or angle of incidence (you engineers and physists know that term) in the glass Besides, i'd rather want to replace a $3 IR illuminator than a $80 CCD, circuit board, and lensincase something goes wrong. . But have fun, experimentation is key! All of us are having fun now.

Couldn't agree with you more. I figured some kind of weatherproofing would be necessary, and like you said, it's all about the experimenting. So I was in the dollar store experimenting this morning, and found a magnetic paperclip holder. Ever have one of those moments where you just knew...

The housing is all once piece and the bottom pops off. The lens used was one of the $10.00 lenses from Mark. It fits pretty snug in the existing hole with no modifications. I will run a bead of silicone on the inside to prevent any water getting in. I have cut a rough size piece of plexi that I will silicone on and trim. Drill a hole in the "bottom" which is actually the back for the red, black and yellow wires, and run it to the rest of the boards mounted somewhere in the car. Set focus by turning the board, since the lens will be "fixed" to the front, and seal it up. Once done, I'll spray it black.

The plexi will prevent road dust and whatever else from getting on the surface of the lens, but it will take the hit instead, which will mean an occasional wipe off. I was also thinking about running a length of windshield washer hose right to the top of this mount and having a nozzle pointing down on the plexi. A splash of wiper fluid at 50mph would dissipate and dry right up...hmmmmm. It's a thought

Staples paperclip holders:
http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/st...plesZipCodeAdd

**Genesisfactor** · 02-19-2006, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Fusion-One

I'm suprised no one mentioned the idea of modifying a webcam to IR. Easier than pie, and it works exceptionally well too.

To do it, you need two things.

1. Webcam
2. Tiny piece of 35mm developed film that is entirely black. (Lets IR pass, but blocks visible light)

You just take a webcam, take it apart, pop out the IR filter, pop the piece of film in with some glue on the edges, put her back together, and you're in business.

With my cheapo webcam, my daytime running lights are almost as bright as my highbeams are when seen through the camera. As far as video quality goes, my only experience is with CMOS.. but it seems to work fine. I get a nice clean (free of noise) image at 388x280@30fps which looks smooth to me, using a webcam that cost me 5$ on ebay. :P

Thought process restored

, thanks for waiting.

There's a HUGE difference between using a webcam and using the NiteMax..which also amounts to the probelsm with using a webcam
1) image lag. NiteMax- instant, webcam- up to a second delay. We're driving here...we know what a slipt second will do..
2) resolution- Nitemax- perfect image on a 47" projection TV (no pics, have 27" though), webcam...havne't gotten it on a projection yet, but i sincerely doubt it
3) refresh alg- Nitemax- you can see the refresh rate as a smooth line moving across the screen ONLY when outputting to a TV under any condition, webcam, choppy as hell under any moving conditions.
4) Lenses. Nitemax- swappable to fit application, webcam...yeah

Its just superior. Any and everyone who jumped on it got the equivalent deal of getting a new opus 150W for $10 shipped.

Shotgun, i get it now. I'll show you my proposed set up soon, its a nice day out... It will work very nicely, i just need to buy more supplies ($20 or so worth). After you guys get down and dirty with it, i'll see what i want to do and then do it... What would be nice is to get a switch for the LCD and two nitemax CCD's (one front, one rear) or more...and you get my drift

. My biggest problem is my Shuttle's power supply went and that was my multimedia comptuer...have to swap out, but shuttles need their cases on to prevent meltdown

Quantum, that looks nice...real nice! You continue to impress me, man, that's freakin awesome how snug that is! I can't wait til my congitive goes back to atleast 80% of norm...

hte nozzle is a good idea, but why not just use alcohol/deforgger solution? That should get rid of everyting and evaporates just as quickly.

Mine is goign to be mounted just behind the rear view mirror (the far side where you can't see) with a decent lens. i'm running the cables across the edge fo the ceiling, down the pillars, and through the dash to the main board, which then will go to the flip up LCD right above the steering wheel, or, over the RPM guage since i could care less that the RPMs are in the thousands. I just need it readible and outside the vicinity of the airbag. I'm have two high output IR balsters in porbably a simial casing as the lens, but wiht the red clear plastice thing in the fog lights or, if i can, in the headlight housing (so the cops can't see it if it glows red). When i get the pics up...i'm just having way too much trouble with the computers these days...

ip...you DON'T want to see it glow. The less red, the better. a cop sees, a cop stops, a ticket you get. that's the forseeable chain of events.

**TheLandYacht** · 02-19-2006, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Fusion-One

I'm suprised no one mentioned the idea of modifying a webcam to IR. Easier than pie, and it works exceptionally well too.

To do it, you need two things.

1. Webcam
2. Tiny piece of 35mm developed film that is entirely black. (Lets IR pass, but blocks visible light)

You just take a webcam, take it apart, pop out the IR filter, pop the piece of film in with some glue on the edges, put her back together, and you're in business.

With my cheapo webcam, my daytime running lights are almost as bright as my highbeams are when seen through the camera. As far as video quality goes, my only experience is with CMOS.. but it seems to work fine. I get a nice clean (free of noise) image at 388x280@30fps which looks smooth to me, using a webcam that cost me 5$ on ebay. :P

Is there a way to do this with UV light/filtering too? I have blacklights installed & running all the time inside The Yacht. Wonder what I'd do to make it look right (couldn't possibly be as simple as the "piece of exposed film" trick could it?)