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Thread: Interest check: Camry/Scion Steering Wheel Control -> USB

  1. #91
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    Actually I'm not sure if it's nessasary to move the edge of the USB connector outside the PCB anyway. I saw these pictures and it doesn't look like the plug goes all the way into the Mini-USB connector. If this is the case, then you don't have to move the connector edge outside the PCB edge, but still be capable of reaching it through a enclosure wall.
    If you have a Mini-USB cable and Mini-USB device like a camera, you should try to chekc out how far into the socket the connector goes.

    Teensy USB Development Board http://www.pjrc.com/teensy




    Speaking of the teensy USB Development Board, have you considered just using Teensy as USB hardware platform, it would save you all the hassle of having PCBs manufactured and ordering and mounting components. The price for Teensy is only US$ 19 with an onboard AVR AT90USB162 with built-in hardware USB port.
    The PCB size is only 1.2 by 0.7 inch.
    Then everyone interested could just purchase their own hardware online and add 1 or 2 pull-up resistors for the resistor ladder and load the firware via the already built-in USB bootloader.



    There's also a similar open source hardware named AVRopendous-Tiny AT90USB162 USB AVR Development Board.
    Open source documentation: http://code.google.com/p/avropendous
    eBay shop for pre-built hardware: http://www.avropendous.com


    http://fourwalledcubicle.com/blog/archives/257
    I thought it would be useful here to give a visual comparison between the two big players in the USB162 market, AVROpendous and the Teensy. Here are the three boards next to one another:

    From left: the Original AVROpendous board, the new AVROpendous Mini [ed: AVRopendous-Tiny], and the Teensy. All nice boards - I use the AVROpendous quite a lot, and last week I spent the day teaching my friend C and AVRs using the easy-to-use Teensy board. He’s now a happy camper (and hopefully converted from the TI MSP430 we used at University) and I’m happy that the Teensy has given him an easy way to experiment.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues View Post
    Actually I'm not sure if it's nessasary to move the edge of the USB connector outside the PCB anyway. I saw these pictures and it doesn't look like the plug goes all the way into the Mini-USB connector. If this is the case, then you don't have to move the connector edge outside the PCB edge, but still be capable of reaching it through a enclosure wall.
    If you have a Mini-USB cable and Mini-USB device like a camera, you should try to chekc out how far into the socket the connector goes.

    Teensy USB Development Board http://www.pjrc.com/teensy




    Speaking of the teensy USB Development Board, have you considered just using this as hardware platform, it would save you all the hassle of having PCBs manufactured and ordering and mounting components. The price for Teensy USB is only US$ 19 with an onboard AVR AT90USB162 with built-in hardware USB port.
    The PCB size is only 1.2 by 0.7 inch.
    Then everyone interested could just purchase their own hardware online and add 1 or 2 pull-up resistors for the resistor ladder and load the firware via the already built-in USB bootloader.



    There's also a similar open source hardware named AVRopendous-Tiny AT90USB162 USB AVR Development Board.
    Open source documentation: http://code.google.com/p/avropendous
    eBay shop for pre-built hardware: http://www.avropendous.com



    AVR AT90USB162 b oards compared.
    From left to right: AVRopendous (replaced by Tiny), AVRopendous-Tiny and Teensy
    http://fourwalledcubicle.com/blog/archives/257
    Well, yes, we could just use one of these development boards, but then the point of this project, among other things is to have a single component that is dedicated to the task. The other thing really is to develop a number of USB devices that are specialized for use in the car, and this was a starting point. (there are some nice ideas like HID battery I have in mind)... and it seems teensy doesn't have an ADC.. which pretty much makes it unusable for a lot of projects.

    then again, maybe this means I should consider using the AT90USB162 instead of the ATMEGA88. The original reason I chose that ATMEGA88 was the the DIP package, but now that it's no longer an issue,...

    but after looking at the AT90USB162, it looks like you have to install drivers and stuff to run DFU, which is hardly what I want. HID is nice in that you can use usermode drivers and such, not only that, it doesn't have an ADC, which is unfortunate, because many projects could use USB/ADC with USB full speed bandwidth (think a usb oscilloscope...). The lack of ADC also makes it impossible to use for this project without an additional ADC... which... just adds to the complexity, imo.

    so looks like we're sticking with the mega88.

  3. #93
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    You are right, the AT90USB82 and AT90USB162 devices doesn't have any built in ADC.
    I just came by the Teensy and without verifying I just assumed the AT90USB's had ADC, but they don't.
    Atmel is however coming out with two new 16kB and 32kB USB AVR's named ATmega16U4 and ATmega32U4: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/de...ly_id=607#1761
    These both have built-in ADC and USB, but I don't really think they are in distribution yet. Digi-Key list both at their website, but have none in stock yet. Once available, we might see new versions of AVRopendous-Tiny and Teensy using ATmega16U4.
    A nice thing about the hardware USB AVR's is that they have on-chip USB 3V regulator so you don't need an external LDO or protection diodes.

    Quote Originally Posted by no2chem View Post
    but after looking at the AT90USB162, it looks like you have to install drivers and stuff to run DFU, which is hardly what I want. HID is nice in that you can use usermode drivers and such
    There's also Generic HID Implementations for AT90USBxxx:
    http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/to...p?tool_id=3879
    Here you can see Atmel also offers a more powerful AT90USBKey demo board with AT90USB1287.
    Price is $26-30:
    http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx...ord=AT90USBKEY
    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...=AT90USBKEY-ND

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues View Post
    You are right, the AT90USB82 and AT90USB162 devices doesn't have any built in ADC.
    I just came by the Teensy and without verifying I just assumed the AT90USB's had ADC, but they don't.
    Atmel is however coming out with two new 16kB and 32kB USB AVR's named ATmega16U4 and ATmega32U4: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/de...ly_id=607#1761
    These both have built-in ADC and USB, but I don't really think they are in distribution yet. Digi-Key list both at their website, but have none in stock yet. Once available, we might see new versions of AVRopendous-Tiny and Teensy using ATmega16U4.
    A nice thing about the hardware USB AVR's is that they have on-chip USB 3V regulator so you don't need an external LDO or protection diodes.


    There's also Generic HID Implementations for AT90USBxxx:
    http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/to...p?tool_id=3879
    yeah, but the bootloader implementation requires libusb32, rather than just HID

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues View Post
    You are right, the AT90USB82 and AT90USB162 devices doesn't have any built in ADC.
    I just came by the Teensy and without verifying I just assumed the AT90USB's had ADC, but they don't.
    Atmel is however coming out with two new 16kB and 32kB USB AVR's named ATmega16U4 and ATmega32U4: http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/de...ly_id=607#1761
    These both have built-in ADC and USB, but I don't really think they are in distribution yet. Digi-Key list both at their website, but have none in stock yet. Once available, we might see new versions of AVRopendous-Tiny and Teensy using ATmega16U4.
    A nice thing about the hardware USB AVR's is that they have on-chip USB 3V regulator so you don't need an external LDO or protection diodes.


    There's also Generic HID Implementations for AT90USBxxx:
    http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/to...p?tool_id=3879
    Here you can see Atmel also offers a more powerful AT90USBKey demo board with AT90USB1287.
    Price is $26-30:
    http://mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx...ord=AT90USBKEY
    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...=AT90USBKEY-ND
    Price on this chip alone is a bit, high, $15:

    http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/565...1287-16au.html

    ATMEGA32Ux is probably likely to be about 2.90 which would be in the right price range. Unfortunately, its not available yet on digikey, and again the lack of hid bootloader kinda sucks... anyway, I wouldn't design for this target until the chip is a little more well tested and available.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by no2chem View Post
    ATMEGA32Ux is probably likely to be about 2.90 which would be in the right price range. Unfortunately, its not available yet on digikey, and again the lack of hid bootloader kinda sucks...
    You can download a HID bootloader here: http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/LUFA.php
    LUFA also contains USB bootloaders for the following USB classes:

    CDC Class Bootloader, compatible with the AVR109 protocol (AVRDude compatible)
    DFU Class Bootloader, compatible with the Atmel DFU protocol (Atmel FLIP, dfu-programmer compatible)
    HID Class Bootloader, compatible with the Teensy protocol (Teensy Loader compatible)

  7. #97
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    Interesting. Well, there is the AT90USB646:

    http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/565...b646-16mu.html

    While it isn't cheap (maybe 3-4x a cheap atmega), if it supports multiple endpoints with different PIDS, this means we can make the device configurable without having to update the firmware!

    ...which also means we can have multiple devices on the same board..
    and more cost savings. so lets take a look...

  8. #98
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    Ok, all things considered, I think we'll just stick with the ATMEGA.

    However, I see a problem.. on the ATMEGA88 datasheet:
    ATmega48/88/168: 0 - 10 MHz @ 2.7 - 5.5V, 0 - 20 MHz @ 4.5 - 5.5V

    ...so maybe running the mega at 12MHz at 3.3V would not be good...

    I take that back, p.304 figure 26-2.

    ok, so let me try to fit it in an enclosure, double check the board and then send it to fab....

    estimate at around $20-25 shipped.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by no2chem View Post
    However, I see a problem.. on the ATMEGA88 datasheet:
    ATmega48/88/168: 0 - 10 MHz @ 2.7 - 5.5V, 0 - 20 MHz @ 4.5 - 5.5V

    ...so maybe running the mega at 12MHz at 3.3V would not be good...
    Don't worry, 12MHz @3.3V is well within specfications for 20MHz rated AVRs.

    The equation for the straight line between 2.7V and 4.5V is (maximum frequncy in MHz = f(max):
    f(max) = ((20-10)/(4.5-2.7)*Vcc-5 = 10/1,8*Vcc-5

    f(max) @Vcc=3.3V: f(max) = 10/1,8*3.3-5 = 13.33MHz


    Or if you instead want to calculate the minimum voltage Vcc(min) at any given frequency (f) in MHz (between 10 and 20 MHz):
    Vcc(min) = (f+5)*1,8/10

    Vcc(min) @f=12MHz: Vcc(min) = (12+5)*1,8/10 = 3.06V

    From the ATmega48PA/88PA datasheet:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #100
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    yeah, i saw that. I am thinking about adding a voltage divider to the OPT ADC3 line, then we can connect ILL+ to it and know the brightness illumination of the car. it just _feels_ like I'm wasting a lot of ADC lines is all =/ this of course, all depends if I can actually figure out a way to implement a custom device with a keyboard... windows likes to restrict application access to hid keyboards

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