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Thread: Renault "Tuner List" Head Unit/CD changer hacking - Controls

  1. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graf
    anyway in the meantime i have developed a board for opto isolated version for TUNER LIST HU series and i will put it on the net tomorow

    it will have no use for me but it will save some time to somebody else
    Sure.

    Other option : find a more recent 2nd hand HU and use your interface with it... If you find a wreck of a low-end model (Clio, Kangoo ?) with display on the head unit itself, it can probably be changed...

    Anyway, sorry for you ... I'll update the compatibility chart on the FAQ page...

  2. #552
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    optoisolated version pcb layout

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicne
    Sure.

    Other option : find a more recent 2nd hand HU and use your interface with it... If you find a wreck of a low-end model (Clio, Kangoo ?) with display on the head unit itself, it can probably be changed...

    Anyway, sorry for you ... I'll update the compatibility chart on the FAQ page...
    thanks vicne

    seems that it is necessary to open another project which will deal with
    HU-s made before 2000, or just as you said switch younger HU-s of corse not w....n (but i like that idea also)
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  3. #553
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    Non-tuner/update list models

    Hi, i have a Renault Megane Coach year 1996 and i have a radio non-tuner or update list at all..
    Here are some pics
    http://www.giovaland.it/gallery.php?...ryalbum&aid=66

    The rear view is identical to that of radiosat 6000. I tried to link directly left and right channel(118-19 and 20(gnd) pins) to a sound source(cd player), but that would have been too easy.
    I look to the connects2 interface here
    http://www.connects2.com/c2search.as...=225&modID=510
    but it seems that with my car(CTARNS001), i have to buy the cd changer too.

    Do you know if Connection + and - pins are equal to TX/RX pins on tunerlist models?
    I know that the only cd changer suitable for my radio is the Philips RC026 and, if i'm not wrong, that is the same for tuner and update list models... so i think the protocol should be the same.

    What do you think?

    The PIC emulator project mantained by Ale works only on tuner and update list, right? or do you think it can fit for my radio too?

    In the end, i bought a tuner list radio for 15€ to make some test... I adapted the connector for the display, clock, tuner and controls from dc594 model to tuner list one, but the display doesn't work, so i can't even know if it's asking me the security code(i think so because even the tuner doesn't work). In addition if i try to push volume, tuner or source keys on the radio I can hear some beeps and nothing more, while pushing the same keys on stalk controls I can't hear any beep... so i think that even stalk controls protocol is different from older models to newer ones.

  4. #554
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    The rear view is identical to that of radiosat 6000.

    YES AND ALL OTHER LOOKS PRETY SAME

    I tried to link directly left and right channel(118-19 and 20(gnd) pins) to a sound source(cd player), but that would have been too easy.

    I HAVE TRIED THE SAME BUT WITH PINS 8,9,10 ON TOP CONNECTOR AND IT DOES NOT WORK; NEED TO ACTIVATE SOMEHOW CD AUDIO INPUT

    I look to the connects2 interface here
    http://www.connects2.com/c2search.as...=225&modID=510
    but it seems that with my car(CTARNS001), i have to buy the cd changer too.


    Do you know if Connection + and - pins are equal to TX/RX pins on tunerlist models?

    FROM WHAT I KNOW IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE NOT (TX,RX 0-12V, and D2B much faster speed and mV instead of volts


    I know that the only cd changer suitable for my radio is the Philips RC026 and, if i'm not wrong, that is the same for tuner and update list models... so i think the protocol should be the same.

    THAT WERE ALSO MY IDEAS; BUT ONLY WHICH IS LEFT TO TRY AND SEE

    What do you think?

    The PIC emulator project mantained by Ale works only on tuner and update list, right? or do you think it can fit for my radio too?

    I THINK IT IS ONLY FOR TUNER & UPDATE LIST (FOR UPDATE LIST YOU EVEN DONT NEED IT IT HAS AUX INPUT)

    In the end, i bought a tuner list radio for 15 to make some test... I adapted the connector for the display, clock, tuner and controls from dc594 model to tuner list one, but the display doesn't work, so i can't even know if it's asking me the security code(i think so because even the tuner doesn't work). In addition if i try to push volume, tuner or source keys on the radio I can hear some beeps and nothing more, while pushing the same keys on stalk controls I can't hear any beep... so i think that even stalk controls protocol is different from older models to newer ones.

    FROM MY EXPERIENCE FIRST NEED TO BE SURE THAT ALL HARDWARE IS READY AND THAN I THINK WITH TUNER LIST IT SHOULD WORK WELL; I SUGGEST TO TRY PC EMULATOR BEFORE GOING TO PIC IT IS EASIER AND MORE SUITABLE FOR DEBBUGING

    AT THE MOMENT I HAVE STOPPED GOING FURTHER; I USE CASSETE ADAPTER
    AND I AM LOOKING TO FIND PLACE INSIDE ON THE BOARD WHERE THIS CASSETE SIGNAL ENTERS TO AUDIO AMPLIFIER MODULE AND TO INSERT SOME WIRES ON THAT POINT AND BYPASS ALL THESE CD EMULATION ISSUE.
    AT THE MOMENT I AM OCCUPIED WITH DWW700M TOUCH SCREEN MONITOR INSTALATION, CAR PC INSTALATION (ONE OLD NOTEBOOK WITH BROKEN LCD WHICH I JUST REMOVED TONIGHT AND USE ONLY AS BASE UNIT), AND GPS, & TV ANTENNA INSTALATION.

    BY THE WAY I KNOW IT IS NOT THIS THREAT BUT DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO SAVE TV CHANNELS ON DWW700M or HOW TO SCAN CHANNELS OR ...

  5. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by s4uzer
    Hi, i have a Renault Megane Coach year 1996 and i have a radio non-tuner or update list at all..
    Here are some pics
    http://giovaland.altervista.org/gall...ryalbum&aid=66

    The rear view is identical to that of radiosat 6000. I tried to link directly left and right channel(118-19 and 20(gnd) pins) to a sound source(cd player), but that would have been too easy.
    I look to the connects2 interface here
    http://www.connects2.com/c2search.as...=225&modID=510
    but it seems that with my car(CTARNS001), i have to buy the cd changer too.
    Are you sure what they mean isn't that you need a "CD Changer Control" label on the front of your HU - which you have ?
    Do you know if Connection + and - pins are equal to TX/RX pins on tunerlist models?
    I really doubt it, unfortunately. According to posts above, it looks like previous models used D2B which is bus-type and not point-to-point serial communication...
    I know that the only cd changer suitable for my radio is the Philips RC026 and, if i'm not wrong, that is the same for tuner and update list models... so i think the protocol should be the same.

    What do you think?
    I'm afraid this changer is not compatible with newer head units. Where did you get this information from ?
    The guy in this thread bought this RC026 changer and couldn't make it work in a 2003 Clio. Note that connectors are incompatible too, by the way.
    According to this post, the RC026 is compatible with "Clio (up to week 43/1999), Kangoo (week 45/1999), Scénic (46/99), Mégane (48/99), Mégane Cabrio (02/00) et Laguna (50/99)"...
    The PIC emulator project mantained by Ale works only on tuner and update list, right? or do you think it can fit for my radio too?
    I think the current scope of his project is also limited to the same models
    In the end, i bought a tuner list radio for 15€ to make some test... I adapted the connector for the display, clock, tuner and controls from dc594 model to tuner list one
    You "adapted" ???
    Do you have information to assume that all those connectors carry compatible signals ?
    but the display doesn't work, so i can't even know if it's asking me the security code(i think so because even the tuner doesn't work). In addition if i try to push volume, tuner or source keys on the radio I can hear some beeps and nothing more, while pushing the same keys on stalk controls I can't hear any beep... so i think that even stalk controls protocol is different from older models to newer ones.
    I'm not particularly surprised, you see... Both stalk controls and dashboard display are managed by a central unit and it most probably has evolved too. :-(

    By the way, is there a model such as Radiosat mentioned on the front of your head unit ?

  6. #556
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    I'm replying to myself, in case some hardware guru can help me.
    Remember this ? :
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicne
    I made a trip to Paris with the emulator and all worked well for about 1h30, then I began all of a sudden to have sound completely stopping
    Well, here is the summary and the new observations of the problem.
    - nothing seems permanently damaged
    - it always starts to happen between 20 and 90 minutes after I start the car
    - the emulator begins to show unacknowledged frames
    - the problem increases during a few minutes: first one drop, than another after 30 seconds, then another after 15 seconds, then more and more up to the point where I get a link error and the emulator isn't recognized anymore
    - if I turn the HU off for 10 minutes but let the PC on, when the HU is restarted it works again for a few minutes
    - I already checked all the cabling and found nothing wrong.

    My current hypothesis is that the head unit's HU_ON output that I'm using to power the optocoupler (see schematics) is overloaded and that a protection is triggered when the chip gets too hot, powering it down.

    According to my calculations, I'm drawing about 10-15 mA from this pin. It seems a rather light load to me but well, this output is only meant to be a signal after all.

    Does it make sense to you ?

    Alternatively, it could be that the optocouplers overheat, but I can't see why they would...

    Any advice is welcome, as always.


    Vicne

  7. #557
    Ale
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    Do you know if Connection + and - pins are equal to TX/RX pins on tunerlist models?
    I think it is a D2B bus signal.

    The PIC emulator project mantained by Ale works only on tuner and update list, right? or do you think it can fit for my radio too?
    I tested the pic emulator only on my tuner list (scenic I 2003).

  8. #558
    Ale
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicne
    Well, here is the summary and the new observations of the problem.
    - nothing seems permanently damaged
    - it always starts to happen between 20 and 90 minutes after I start the car
    - the emulator begins to show unacknowledged frames
    - the problem increases during a few minutes: first one drop, than another after 30 seconds, then another after 15 seconds, then more and more up to the point where I get a link error and the emulator isn't recognized anymore
    - if I turn the HU off for 10 minutes but let the PC on, when the HU is restarted it works again for a few minutes
    - I already checked all the cabling and found nothing wrong.
    It is possible that when your HU is getting warmer the internal baudrate clock shift a little, and get wrong data from PC. (or is your PC baud rate clock?) this is the first problem that i encoutered with pic emulator that has a +10% initial error in frequency. Try to measure the bit time, should be 104uS, with an oscilloscope (or the soundcard recorder!!)

    According to my calculations, I'm drawing about 10-15 mA from this pin. It seems a rather light load to me but well, this output is only meant to be a signal after all.
    I get form pin 17 (Rm+12v) the power for my portable dvd that consume 950mA. All run ok in a two hour trip to sea.

  9. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ale
    It is possible that when your HU is getting warmer the internal baudrate clock shift a little, and get wrong data from PC. (or is your PC baud rate clock?) this is the first problem that i encoutered with pic emulator that has a +10% initial error in frequency. Try to measure the bit time, should be 104uS, with an oscilloscope (or the soundcard recorder!!)
    I admit I didn't think of that at all.
    But I guess the PC has a much more accurate clock than that, doesn't it ? Moreover, my last test showed that even with the PC running, just turning the HU off to let it cool down "restores" correct behaviour.
    A jitter on the HU side could be an explanation, but I really find it weird...
    I might resurrect the soundcard recorder indeed :-), and use the EPIA soundcard so that I can capture the behaviour when the problem occurs...
    I hope it's not the problem, because I can't see how I could solve that :-(
    I get form pin 17 (Rm+12v) the power for my portable dvd that consume 950mA. All run ok in a two hour trip to sea.
    Ahem... Yes, ok, so obviously that's not the problem :-).

    Or could it be that I'm dragging too much current from data pins ?

    And do you think a problem in the hardware adapter could be the reason (I know I was warned that those optocouplers are very sensitive to resistor values) ? You see, I really think my circuit is about 10000x more error-prone than products from both Via and VDO... :-)

    This issue is driving me mad and I'd really like to get rid of it before going on holiday (end of july)... :-(

    Thanks very much for your help. It's very much appreciated, as always.

  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graf
    AND I AM LOOKING TO FIND PLACE INSIDE ON THE BOARD WHERE THIS CASSETE SIGNAL ENTERS TO AUDIO AMPLIFIER MODULE AND TO INSERT SOME WIRES ON THAT POINT AND BYPASS ALL THESE CD EMULATION ISSUE.
    I think I will try the same thing. It's the last experiment we can try

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