Thread: Renault "Tuner List" Head Unit/CD changer hacking - Controls

Hi!
I have a "Tuner List" HU on a Megane 2004 (South America) and a DVD Player with SPDIF output.
I'm looking for a PIC based solution to fool the HU and allow me to send the DVD digital signal.
Connects2 (CTVRNX001) is a good option, but it features analog inputs and I don't need them. I believe I'm only needing the "cdc emulator" part. Somebody quoted also that the analog/spdif conversion part is what accounts for most of the price of CTVRNX001.

I haven't found this single solution on the Internet, and think you here in the forum arrived to it using creativity, electronic components, shared knowledge and soldering skills...!!
But...I don't have the skills to build one myself. I was wondering if any of you has built some of them and want to sell one to me. Of course, it has to cost me less than the Connects2 part.

Please, let me know about it.

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

first of all a big hello. I am living in Germany, and driving a Renault Trafic II (june 2006) with the UpdateList Radio and CDC.
My stalkremote is equipped, with:
volume+ & -, source,
scroll-wheel
and a button to change cd's in the CDC, or switch radio-tuner search method.

I have a EPIA MII10000 with Hami 8001 installed. I am currently running WinXP Home with CES as CarPC Software, this is based on Windows Mediaplayer. It is a very stable install.

Somehow the Aux-in on the UpdateList was not giving the sound quality I expected, so last weekend I have build the "full-version" hardware adapter (see: Hardware adapters)
I have chosen this one, so I could still use the CDC when power to the adapter is turned off.
Big thanks to Vicne!!!!!
Installed is the TLCDCEmu Java (build 0.4).

Now my issue(s):

My Background: I am no programmer nor electronically educated.... but very willing to learn.
I assume I am confronted with my lack of programming knowledge.

1: Connection works perfectly, Display shows [CD 1-6], but I have to enter "p" to put emulator into status "playing". Any idea to have this automated? Is it needed?

2: once switched to "playing" the display shows [TR01 CD1], as it should, but I have no sound coming from the speakers. Message in the dos-console shows: rr not found, maybe it is not running. That's correct it isn't.

The following buttons from the stalk remote have the following functions:
Source > (switch from FM, to CD and CDC) = good
CDC button (lowest button) > Display shows Load CD = good.
Scroll-wheel > Display switched from TR01 to TR02, and then immediately switched back to original position = not sooo good
Volume"+" > no function = according to earlier posts indicates no active SPDIF
Volume"-" > no function = according to earlier posts indicates no active SPDIF
Volume"+"&"-" > Pause (=mute) = good

After none re-traceable button moves on the stalkremote (I tried to reproduce my moves, but no success, I used mainly the "change CD" and the "source" buttons) I suddenly heard the sound, in a perfect quality.
I now could also increase and decrease the volume with the remote. This wasn't possible before.
turning of tha HU and rebooting PC resulted in a non working sound again.

I inititally thought it had sth to do with the rrplugin in TLCDCemu.properties, so I deactivated this plugin. But without any plugin, no success either. I tried every plugin that comes with the package, but also without success.

Due to the fact that I seem not to have an immediate SPDIF sound, it is of course also possible that I made a construction error:
One thing that was not clear to me during the soldering of the adapter was the place for the capacitor:
in the schema it is pointed directly to the 10k resistor.
Could this be the cause of my (delayed?) working spdif?

Questions:

Q1: which plugin should I use, and/or adapt? I am not using Winamp, but it worked

Q2: Where should the + of the capacitor be placed?



between resistor and transistor? red or between resistor (10K) and diode ( 1N4148?) green
as stated I have no clue/background, I read, think and build... ;-)

Q3: Will it be possible to steer windows mediaplayer with the scrollwheel? next & previous track?

Q4: Any other tips to find the reason for my sporadically working connection?

Thanks alot in advance!!

Triskel

Hi, triskel,

Originally Posted by triskel

Big thanks to Vicne!!!!!

You're welcome :-)

Now my issue(s):
1: Connection works perfectly, Display shows [CD 1-6], but I have to enter "p" to put emulator into status "playing". Any idea to have this automated? Is it needed?
2: once switched to "playing" the display shows [TR01 CD1], as it should, but I have no sound coming from the speakers. Message in the dos-console shows: rr not found, maybe it is not running. That's correct it isn't.

As you probably know, the needed plugins are configured in the TLCDCEmu.properties file (you can edit it in Notepad).

In your case, obviously, you had first left RRPlugin or RRExtendedPlugin activated (I'll write RRPlugin instead of org.tlcdcemu.plugin.roadrunner.RRPlugin if you don't mind).
Those two try to communicate with RoadRunner (hence the 'RR' in their names) and Winamp (I admit I'm only using RoadRunner, so I didn't really focus on other front ends). In your case, you don't need any of these two of course.

The fact that the display "switches from TR01 to TR02, and then immediately back to original position" is due to the fact that two plugins are "struggling" for the control of the display. You should activate at most one plugin that changes the "playing status". This characteristic (changes the playing status or not) is given for each plugin on the plugins page.

Questions:

Q1: which plugin should I use, and/or adapt? I am not using Winamp, but it worked

Probably, in your case, you should try the LogicalPlugin alone first. All it does is keep the SPDIF alive and increase the track automatically on the display every 3 minutes, and also according to the stalk control commands. But it's a "dead end" : it does not transmit commands to any other program or player, nor does it display information for any program back on the display.

If this does not work, then something is obviously wrong.

More on plugins below...

One thing that was not clear to me during the soldering of the adapter was the place for the capacitor:
in the schema it is pointed directly to the 10k resistor.

[B]Q2: Where should the + of the capacitor be placed?

This symbol of an arrow pointing to a resistor is a potentiometer : a component which is composed of a fixed resistor between two ends, and an adjustable cursor which links the third connection anywhere between the two ends. That's the black rounded component at the bottom right on this picture. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer for more information.

Anyway, this part is only aimed at delaying time between serial port signal and relay activation. My motherboard switches this pin on and off multiple times during boot up, and adjusting this potentiometer kind of "ignores" those temporary transitions and only switches from the actual CD changer to the emulator when everything is booted up and stable. It shouldn't be linked to your problem...

Q3: Will it be possible to steer windows mediaplayer with the scrollwheel? next & previous track?

As I said, in your case, none of the RoadRunner are suited, and Logical is only a "stub" plugin.

If you want to get your stalk controls to have an effect, you have to use another plugin. Currently, the only Plugin that transmits commands (apart from the RoadRunner ones) is the ExecutorPlugin. This plugin can start any program upon stalk command events. If your frontend has a command-line utility to send it commands (it's the case for RoadRunner which can pass commands through to winamp), that's the easy solution. If not, you can probably configure a software such as AutoIt to control your front-end or mediaplayer by simulating button presses. No information will be returned to the HU though (not a big deal if you ask me).

Of course, the high-end solution would be to write a specific plugin for your front-end, but unfortunately, inter-process communication - in particular between Java and Windows apps - is not an easy task, and I don't have time and knowledge of your front-end to do it myself... :-(

Q4: Any other tips to find the reason for my sporadically working connection?

The First thing to do is probably to increase the debug level :
DebugLevel=<number between 0 (none) and 6 (maximum)>
and see if console reports connection errors or retries while not touching to any stalk controls (it shouldn't).

According to my own experience, mistakes in the circuit or in component values are easy to make. In particular, if it works "sometimes", it could either be a loose soldering (try gently pressing on components with an isolated tool such as the back of a screwdriver while circuit is powered on to see if it changes something) or a wrong component value (when components heat up or input voltage changes, they can get just in or out of the range).

Good luck.

Hi Vicne,

first of all thank for your response.

I've exchanged the rrExtendedplugin with the logicalPlugin.

Still no immediate success.

Secondly I increased debuglevel to 6, didn't touch the stalk and there are no errors, everything seems fine.

Then I started to play around with the stalk.
Trackchange is now possible, but no sound.

Also cd change (= Load cd) is returning no errors.
But still no sound.

After multiple clicking on the LoadCD button, I received (of course) double entries which are ignored. And all of a sudden, sound came. And volume buttonbs reacted as they should.

I've then put the pc into hibernate mode, turned of the ignition, went to buy some food, returned, started ignition, pc booted, and the sound was immediately there. I could still change the volume with the stalk.

When shutting down, and restarting (not from hiberation), only an "uncontrolled" multiple usage of the cd change function, again results in getting sound.

I am getting more convinced that it really seems a SW issue.
Damn'

How can I proceed, is there something that I can show you, which could help me to trace the cause of my "random" sound?

Thanks alot!!

groeten
Triskel

Originally Posted by triskel

After multiple clicking on the LoadCD button, I received (of course) double entries which are ignored. And all of a sudden, sound came. And volume buttonbs reacted as they should.

Hi Triskel,
I also have an Update List HU and I experienced the same problems as you described. I saw some unknown commands coming from the HU when I made my first tests a few months ago. I suspect that the Update List unit sends a few 'still undocumented' commands to the CDC that are maybe not confirmed by the CDC emulator.
I can't remember correctly if the software sends a confirm after each received command, recognized or not. Perhaps this can solve our problem, does the software acknowledges unknown commands? I think Vicne knows the answer.
Unfortunatly I cannot do any tests for the moment, I need to fabricate my PCB first (used a breadboard for testing back then). And I'm already spending all my free time on HQCT software. However this SW is almost reaching a satisfying level so that I can pick up the CDC interface again.

Putput

Hi PutPut,

Thanks!
I have started to find out a "start-up-Sequence".
until now I have a success rate of about 70%. ( 7 out of 10 times sound, after a specific sequence.) But keyboard is still needed.

Any idea how to automatically get the emu to playing mode immediately?

bedankt/merci/thx
Triskel

Originally Posted by triskel

Secondly I increased debuglevel to 6, didn't touch the stalk and there are no errors, everything seems fine.

Great ! That probably means your adapter is OK.

Then I started to play around with the stalk.
Trackchange is now possible, but no sound.

Also cd change (= Load cd) is returning no errors.
But still no sound.

After multiple clicking on the LoadCD button, I received (of course) double entries which are ignored. And all of a sudden, sound came. And volume buttonbs reacted as they should.

I admit I can't understand why spdif isn't activated at first (and why it comes afterwards).

I've then put the pc into hibernate mode, turned of the ignition, went to buy some food, returned, started ignition, pc booted, and the sound was immediately there. I could still change the volume with the stalk.

When shutting down, and restarting (not from hiberation)

Well, as you probably know, hibernation is, from a software point of view, an almost uninterrupted workflow. I mean, the software wakes up in the exact state where it was left asleep, and goes on as if nothing had happened.

only an "uncontrolled" multiple usage of the cd change function, again results in getting sound.
I am getting more convinced that it really seems a SW issue.
Damn'

Yes, software, or more precisely probably a protocol issue. If you read the whole thread, you probably saw that I only own a Tuner List and no Update List HU, and protocol was reverse-engineered by spying on the Tuner List dialog.
As Putput says it had the same issue with his Update List, and as our softwares were written completely independently, there probably is some command (or sequence of commands) the HU sends and our emulators don't know what to reply, so they don't behave as the HU expects and the HU doesn't activate its SPDIF input.

How can I proceed, is there something that I can show you, which could help me to trace the cause of my "random" sound?

First, here are a few tests you could do with the current software :

- try turning the Head Unit on and off multiple times to see if it changes something. Normally, once the HU is turned off, you should get errors on the console saying sent frames are not acknowledged, and once it is turned on, the emulator should restart its "boot emulation" procedure.

- if it doesn't change anything, try pressing and releasing pause multiple times. When I had problems with my adapter, it often restored the sound because each time "pause" is pressed, it causes a mute, and when it's pressed again, it causes a spdif re-activation...

- if you don't get any success, I'm afraid the only way would be to spy the protocol with your HU. The good news I think is that contrary to Putput, you do own a CD Changer, right ? The bad news is that spying means using a different adapter... :-(


a+, mvg, cu ;-)

Originally Posted by Putput

I saw some unknown commands coming from the HU when I made my first tests a few months ago. I suspect that the Update List unit sends a few 'still undocumented' commands to the CDC that are maybe not confirmed by the CDC emulator.

That's my impression too. If you saw unknown commands, that can obviously be a reason...

I can't remember correctly if the software sends a confirm after each received command, recognized or not. Perhaps this can solve our problem, does the software acknowledges unknown commands? I think Vicne knows the answer.

In my version, yes, all frames that are syntactically correct (I mean they comply to the format, with checksum ans such) are acknowledged first, before their contents is evaluated.
Then if the frame is unrecognized, debug should show a line beginning with "Received frame: Type ? ...", provided debug level is 5 or more...

But well, acknowledge is probably not sufficient. If the HU sends a certain frame, it is possible that it waits for a certain answer...

Originally Posted by triskel

I have started to find out a "start-up-Sequence".
until now I have a success rate of about 70%. ( 7 out of 10 times sound, after a specific sequence.) But keyboard is still needed.

Could you please precisely describe this "70% success procedure" ?
Keyboard is a feature that dates back to the time the emulator did not react to anything. That was the "manual" emulation.
Technically, the emulator is always in a "state" from a list of predefined states. Once it is in a state, it sends certain frames to the HU. Transitions between states are normally made when receiving certain HU frames, but in the early versions when that didn't work, keyboard input was the only way to force change from one state to another.

Any idea how to automatically get the emu to playing mode immediately?

Well, it would be possible to simulate the procedure you do manually, but it'd be a dirty hack, and if it's not 100% reliable, I don't think it's worth the effort, considering that it could break the working model with the Tuner List HU...

I'd be much more tempted to find the difference and fix it the clean way...

Kind regards,