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Thread: Project NiteVision - NiteMax + HUD + carputer

  1. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunefx View Post
    Your holiness , thanks for pointing out the Mercedes link on Hack a Day, I hadn't seen that system.
    Glad to be of service.

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunefx View Post
    Looks like I'm back to IR illuminators in my Fogs. (Or maybe my headlights, I've already got em open to clean my HID retrofits) .
    I've allready gone that way by mounting six NiteMax IR LED modules outside my car.
    The IR component of my halogen headlights washes them out completely, so the Mercedes way of seeing in the dark would be a definitely better approach.
    Slam some high-beam projectors on the car and filter out the daylight component.

    The only difficulty I'm experiencing at the moment is finding a source for affordable IR-pass-through-filters for such a system, that will ship to Europe. (Suggestions for syppliers -or DIY solutions- are most welcome.)

    Blinding the CCD for daylight isn't that much of a problem, as developed un-exposed slides should do fine. Developed exposed photograph film doesn't cut it, and two layers of it make the image go blurry. Maybe I didn't expose it long enough, as the film is only brown instead of the desired black.

    Or did anyone come up with a another solution for cutting out the glare caused by streetlights, head- and tail-lights from other cars ? (Polarised filters, or maybe a hardware hack performed on the NiteMax's electronics?)

  2. #642
    FLAC
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    Lezandre, how big do you want those IR Pass through filters to be? If your'e intending to cover the CCD istelf, let me now, because mark and i were talking about that about three nights ago. i did some research and ebay has a few for $25+ and there's this nitendo wii IR thing that i'm considering buyign for $7 shipped. It won't be here until janurary though. Other sources are old remotecontrols and IR windows from remote controleed devices. I've tried some caremasand mark tried some remotecontrols, btu their windwos are either green tinted or purple tinted. If you are willing to experiment with them, lmk because i'll beputting it off until afteri repair mypocketpc and my thinkpad.

    worse comes to worse, i'll ship it to you.

    http://www.maxmax.com/aXNiteFilters.htm
    ^ a cheap place with quality gear.

    How is daylight a problem? i've never expereinced any issues to make it need any filters while outside with a nitemax...sned me a pic to show mewhat you're talking about please

    The glare can ony really be cut out software wise. i read an interesting article a week ago where someone was trying to develop a way to create the perfect image when you are in a bright area and someoen is in a dark area. He found that he needed 4 different gain settings to do it. The CCD iris decideshow much light its going to let inbased on the surroundings, but if a bright light shines, an d you have to remember that these lights are inten sely bright in order to turn "night in to day" kinda, you either sacrifice the whole image or you take the pain. therefore, you might need an anitglare script in the viewing software that identifies the halo and, at the very least, minimizes the distracting effects. you really can't have this cake and eat it too unless you use multiple ccds taking the same image and use software to instantaneously combine the images into one perfect image.

    edit...this looks interestin g though...
    PRECISION 25MM DIA BANDPASS INTERFERENCE FILTER 670 NM 10 +/- 2 NM FWHM
    http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/pm1023.html

    maybe something along those lines under the same premise? then again, the lights spit out IR so it really won't work.
    Carputer Progress: Here we go again...

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  3. #643
    FLAC
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    oh, for those of you possibly going the projector route...

    http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2621.html

    these ar rather cool too

    http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3692.html

    lezan dre, theydidnt have any passthrough
    Carputer Progress: Here we go again...

    THE GF THEME
    Genesis has speed
    Genesis has class
    Genesis sent money
    before your a__;)

    Join the fight against carputters. EMAIL ME!

  4. #644
    Raw Wave shotgunefx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesisfactor View Post
    we made hackaday....sweet deal. Thank god ididn't post what i wanted to or else people would now a little secret i'd rather not share with the outside world.
    ....
    shotgun, miss ya man. i learend C++ while i wasaway, so eventually i'll get to linux and java. How has the nitemax been holding up in your casing? have you had any issues or problems? How has the focusing been?
    ....
    If you need me, use email. Shotgun, there's something kinda cool about the nitemax ccds you should know and we should play with. it'll be worth it, trust me
    ...
    Hey man!, I've been lurking around but haven't done much of anything project-wise since summer. Had a lot of medical stuff going on in the family and hammered at work. Though starting to get going again.

    C++ eh? That was one of my first languages (early 90s), but to be honest, I used it pretty much like C with some extras at the time , OO didn't gel for me until a long time after. Though I've been fumbling with it here and there tweaking OSS stuff.

    Most of the car electronics have been sitting on my desk unfortunately. The only problem I had with the cameras was one of the lenses, the jury rigged auto-iris connector broke.

    Feel like sharing the CCD info? I'll pm you my email.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeZandre View Post
    ...
    I've allready gone that way by mounting six NiteMax IR LED modules outside my car.
    The IR component of my halogen headlights washes them out completely, so the Mercedes way of seeing in the dark would be a definitely better approach.
    Slam some high-beam projectors on the car and filter out the daylight component.
    ...
    Or did anyone come up with a another solution for cutting out the glare caused by streetlights, head- and tail-lights from other cars ? (Polarised filters, or maybe a hardware hack performed on the NiteMax's electronics?)
    I tried it too (I think it's in the first video), you can barely see it, some optics might have improved it, but not nearly enough to be usable, though the big illuminators I have might be a different story. I'll have to dig out the tape I made, I thought you could see it on the houses around 250 ft away that are under streetlights.

    Where I left off with the glare problem, well, polarizers seem to help, but an auto-iris by itself is not good enough (unless maybe a visible light filter is in front of the camera).


    Quote Originally Posted by Genesisfactor View Post
    ...
    How is daylight a problem? i've never expereinced any issues to make it need any filters while outside with a nitemax...sned me a pic to show mewhat you're talking about please

    The glare can ony really be cut out software wise. i read an interesting article a week ago where someone was trying to develop a way to create the perfect image when you are in a bright area and someoen is in a dark area. He found that he needed 4 different gain settings to do it. The CCD iris decideshow much light its going to let inbased on the surroundings, but if a bright light shines, an d you have to remember that these lights are inten sely bright in order to turn "night in to day" kinda, you either sacrifice the whole image or you take the pain. therefore, you might need an anitglare script in the viewing software that identifies the halo and, at the very least, minimizes the distracting effects. you really can't have this cake and eat it too unless you use multiple ccds taking the same image and use software to instantaneously combine the images into one perfect image.
    ...
    So back to the computer controlling the Iris I guess? I did a quick look at video overlay mixers, WOW. lot's of money and you'd still need a PC to control the mixing. You'd be better off with a dedicated PC for it. Though I wonder how often you would actually need to analyze frames to get decent performance, I bet you could get a way with 3-5 times a second, and considering glare is "big", I bet you could use a smaller frame for analyzing.

  5. #645
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    Hi Genesisfactor & Shotgunefx

    I'm thinking the Mercedes way.
    Put IR through filters in front of standard halogen high beam projectors to create 'cheap' IR floodlights, as to increase the range of IR visiblity.
    I need to cut out the visible light factor or 'daylight', so I won't blind traffic coming towards me.

    I've got two rectangles of about 9 x 25 cm space left in my front bumper to put those projectors. The price of two 55W high beam projectors wont exceed $ 70 by much.
    Think in the way of a homemade blackout set my American colleagues in Iraq are using on their Hummers.

    http://www.usnightvision.com/Blackou...ed_Filters.htm

    With putting a removeable IR-throug- filter in front of the lens of the NiteMax, by night, I hope to cut out most of the visible light coming from the other traffic. But those project a lot of IR as well, so -as you mention- it won't be the best option to cut those darn lights out. At least I hope to help the NiteMax to function in IR only mode so it won't try to mix IR and colour information on my 7" TFT.

    Placing the filter in between the CCD and the lens isn't an easily removeable option. It needs to be removeable because by day I use the colour NiteMax to offer the passengers on the back-seat a view on the road ahead.

    From the information provided by Oerlikon, I gather Mercedes is using the same hardware strategy. But logically thinking, they must have some software caring for the video signal as well.

    At the moment I'm cooking up a contraption to use two CCD's in parallel. One with a 8mm lens, and another with a 12mm lens. (Mostly because I don't have a 10 mm lens to experiment with.) Using the 8 mm lens provides me with a nice broad view of the road ahead. Because of the deformed depth scale, assuming the distance to an object in front is a tad difficult. No worries in this department with a 12 mm lens, but it's field of view is a bit narrow.

    Using the digital 2X zoom on an 8mm lens has the same effect as if you were switching to a 12 mm lens, but you lose a lot of resolution this way.

    To me, the most difficult bit in the whole affair seems to be to fit a momentary-close-switch on the steering wheel. Hard enough, taking into consideration my steering-wheel has no switches on it at all. (Exept for the horn, that is. But I can hardly cannibalise that.)

  6. #646
    Raw Wave shotgunefx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeZandre View Post
    Hi Genesisfactor & Shotgunefx

    I'm thinking the Mercedes way.
    Put IR through filters in front of standard halogen high beam projectors to create 'cheap' IR floodlights, as to increase the range of IR visiblity.
    I need to cut out the visible light factor or 'daylight', so I won't blind traffic coming towards me.

    I've got two rectangles of about 9 x 25 cm space left in my front bumper to put those projectors. The price of two 55W high beam projectors wont exceed $ 70 by much.
    Think in the way of a homemade blackout set my American colleagues in Iraq are using on their Hummers.

    http://www.usnightvision.com/Blackou...ed_Filters.htm

    With putting a removeable IR-throug- filter in front of the lens of the NiteMax, by night, I hope to cut out most of the visible light coming from the other traffic. But those project a lot of IR as well, so -as you mention- it won't be the best option to cut those darn lights out. At least I hope to help the NiteMax to function in IR only mode so it won't try to mix IR and colour information on my 7" TFT.

    Placing the filter in between the CCD and the lens isn't an easily removeable option. It needs to be removeable because by day I use the colour NiteMax to offer the passengers on the back-seat a view on the road ahead.

    From the information provided by Oerlikon, I gather Mercedes is using the same hardware strategy. But logically thinking, they must have some software caring for the video signal as well.

    At the moment I'm cooking up a contraption to use two CCD's in parallel. One with a 8mm lens, and another with a 12mm lens. (Mostly because I don't have a 10 mm lens to experiment with.) Using the 8 mm lens provides me with a nice broad view of the road ahead. Because of the deformed depth scale, assuming the distance to an object in front is a tad difficult. No worries in this department with a 12 mm lens, but it's field of view is a bit narrow.

    Using the digital 2X zoom on an 8mm lens has the same effect as if you were switching to a 12 mm lens, but you lose a lot of resolution this way.

    To me, the most difficult bit in the whole affair seems to be to fit a momentary-close-switch on the steering wheel. Hard enough, taking into consideration my steering-wheel has no switches on it at all. (Exept for the horn, that is. But I can hardly cannibalise that.)
    As far as IR band pass filters, have you looked at Edmund Optics?

    http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...172=D#Products

    Maybe you could hack one of those wireless aftermarket stereo steering wheel controls for the switch, or just say hell with it and put it with the door controls or some other place easily accessible.

  7. #647
    Newbie redleader36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesisfactor View Post
    As for headmounted displays while driving...i'll tell you why a monocular is abad idea
    I was more thinking of taking the head mounted display apart and using the lcd instead of that 1980s camcorder viewfinder crt you guys were playing with around pages 10-15(somewhere in there).

  8. #648
    Raw Wave shotgunefx's Avatar
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    A thought...

    Maybe projectors and what not are not the best source for lighting. Doing some digging (Damn you guys for the wasted hours! ), I started to think along other lines.

    If this is primarily for long range illumination, the pattern we would want is not going to be the same as most oem and aftermarket lights. We want more of a spot than a wide angle beam.

    What about PAR lights? The lights for stage and aircraft? You can get them for 12v, cheap, all kinds of beam angles, and they make cheap enclosures for them (DJ shops, theatrical, etc).

    Size wise, it looks like PAR36 seems doable. (Seems to be hard to find Par16 bulbs with very narrow beam, but would be nice as they are so small)

    The big problem is that a lot of the bulbs have an IR blocking coating ( CAPSYLITE?) that redirects the IR back towards the bulbs but I don't think they all have them.

    Check these bulbs out. (They won't work for this app as they are coated, but anyway)

    50w 700 lumens - 6 degrees

    No my math might be way off (or my understanding), but with six degrees, at a range of 600 feet, the beam will be 100ft wide, dividing the lumens by the area in sq meters (729.288m) gives 0.96 lux. Now of course, this doesn't account for atmospheric attenuation, etc, but you'll also have two lights, so it should be over 1 lux.

    With a 5 degree beam, it works out to about the same, but at 1000ft.

    No of course, this is all visible light, not sure what there IR profile is like, but at least it give an idea and they are cheap

  9. #649
    Maximum Bitrate americasfuture2's Avatar
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    ha, i came across this the other day, and now i see it posted on hackaday. great site. looks like a good project too!

  10. #650
    Raw Wave shotgunefx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redleader36 View Post
    I was more thinking of taking the head mounted display apart and using the lcd instead of that 1980s camcorder viewfinder crt you guys were playing with around pages 10-15(somewhere in there).
    I had no idea how bright the CRT would be (or if it would be possible to goose it higher), so I figured I'd give it a shot as the camera was trash.

    When are those damn laser cell phone projectors coming out!
    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3CQG_pygBg[/media]
    http://www.lightblueoptics.com/technology.htm

    I had a feeling they were optimistic when they were hinting at this year.

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