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Thread: Ambiophonics - An experiment and a How to using foobar2000.

  1. #11
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    Seems to be an interesting concept...though I'm not sure I comprehend 100%.

    At first I thought it was the concept of getting more lifelike sound out of a system. Then I thought it was aimed at getting that sound out of different speaker placement. Then I thought it was aimed at getting that sound out of a pair of speakers placed within relative close proximity.

    Now I'm just not sure.

    I don't see anywhere that describes what it is and HOW they propose to go about achieving it. In other words, the actual method. From what I've read, it's nothing more than a theory at this point that's not even made it to testing...

    Reading this link: http://www.ambiophonics.org/#WhatIs
    vaguely discusses that it's a method of treating the listening space to achieve more realistic sound but it doesn't go into hardly any detail about what makes it so different from currently sought after methods of room treatment. Perhaps I'm just dense?
    Jan Bennett
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  2. #12
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    The main principal is a crosstalk eliminator combined with close proximity pair of speakers for the front stage to give greater width and better sound localisation than stero.

    All surround speakers are simply there to simulate room acoustics.,

  3. #13
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    The close proximity part is what I thought.

    Just seems odd that they would claim all of this with a 24 speaker set-up...a room should sound life like then...lol
    Jan Bennett
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  4. #14
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Actually a major improvement can be seen with just 2 speakers. The extra speakers recreate more ambiance/reflections but is not necessary however he states if you want to extend the listening width from 110-120deg to 180 or even 360, you can do so by adding more and talks about how to do it.

    RED-You should try it with the samples they have and then use foobar to play any of oyur normal listening music through the convolver with the impulse files.

    Basically all this theory, is pretty much the EXACT opposite of how "stereo" (equilateral triangle) sound works but works with normal everyday recordings, unless it was all synthesized.

    It has been done, but plenty of research continues to improve it. There are even consumer grade processors out there that have used an early form of this. Tact being one of them. I think Method B is based off the newest research.

    Look at the figures on that page, a picture is worth a thousand words sometimes.

    It basically takes binaural (normal human hearing)/(headphone listening) and externalizes to loudspeakers.

  5. #15
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Update:

    There is something fishy about the way the foobar convolver plugin works and it doesn't do justice to this method. I experimented with the audiomulch method and it's definitely doing something different and it's much much much better. I read up on the convolver plugin and it appears to not work properly with those impulse files and it needs cross channel convolution capabilities.

    http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...ic=10611&st=75

    If I can find another way to use another convolver plugin inside winamp or foobar I'll revise the experiment instructions. There appears to be way too much reverb and too much phase issues and I think it's because the foobar convolver is not setup for multichannel impulses.

    Stay tuned...

    P.S. The audiomulch method works great though Bye bye stereophonic sound, hello ambiophonics.

  6. #16
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    So let me see if I understand this better. It's reminding me of the new Bose gimmick...with the 3 front speakers that should give lifelike surround sound in ANY room.

    basically, it's a theory based on placing speakers closer together than you would in a stereophonic set-up and then you rely on an ambiophonics processor to manipulate the sound.

    So, instead of having your L and R speakers out at the points of the triangle creating your stage width while you try and firm up your center image, you would have your L and R speakers much closer together creating your center image and you would have to create your boundaries...quite the opposite of stereophonic sound reproduction. Not sure that made any sense, sitting here talking with my husband it made sense...lol
    Jan Bennett
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  7. #17
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    FYI - An interesting read: http://www.stereotimes.com/comm0899.shtml
    Jan Bennett
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  8. #18
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
    So let me see if I understand this better. It's reminding me of the new Bose gimmick...with the 3 front speakers that should give lifelike surround sound in ANY room.

    basically, it's a theory based on placing speakers closer together than you would in a stereophonic set-up and then you rely on an ambiophonics processor to manipulate the sound.

    So, instead of having your L and R speakers out at the points of the triangle creating your stage width while you try and firm up your center image, you would have your L and R speakers much closer together creating your center image and you would have to create your boundaries...quite the opposite of stereophonic sound reproduction. Not sure that made any sense, sitting here talking with my husband it made sense...lol
    You nailed it! It's different when you first listen to it and I don;t expect anyone to just say screw stereo, but it sure makes you think. The more you listen you will decide if you like it or not and if you are like me will flip back and forth to compare the two. If you like listening to headphones, but don't like the "sound is trapped in your head" feel, this externalizes it and you don't get that feeling.

    Stereo vs Ambiphonics = "They-are-here" vs "you-are-there"

    Ambiophonics strives to take stereo, ambisonics (binaural)/surround sound, mono and combine them for the best of everything. Depending on how far you take it with adding ambient speakers will determine if you increase the stage width from 120 to 180 to a full 360, but this is on a circular flat plane. www.filmaker.com is experimenting with improving this to a full half sphere around our heads for complete surround sound down via ambiophonics, not dolby although SACD and DVD-A would be perfect mediums to take it past 2 channel.

    Then there is the even newer concepts of VBAP. Not much info on that one, but I think it takes it even one step further. Abmolech probably knows more about that then I do, but I'm trying to understand that as well.

  9. #19
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    Any updates on this?

  10. #20
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    There was an update to the Choueiri impulse file. It's now called BACCH. There is some addition or change to the bandpass filtering going on I think. The link is screwed up on their website but the file is there. Try this link.

    www.ambiophonics.org/files/Choueiri/BACCH4096v3_46rmC2x2.wav

    There will be a new RACE version coming out as well it appears.

    Also of interest, a musicians (Howard Moscovitz) take on it is located here.

    http://www.electro-music.com/forum/forum-164.html

    He works closely with Robin Miller and came up with his own experimental VST for it. Keep in mind that this is all experimental stuff and if something doesn't sound right, don't write it off just yet. How long how people been trying to sqeeze whatever they can out of Stereophonic? 70 years?

    I'm using it in my car right now for several months. This is one of those things I would love to gush about, but I think it is best for others to experiment on their own and form their own ideas.

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