Thread: Soundcard suggestion for 4 way active setup!

So when using audiomulch or console, volume control is a problem? Why is that? is it hard for windows to increase and decrease volumes of all channels linearly? My dream about going active with soundcard will be harder than I thought I guess?? Will all soundcards and in all dsp programs, does this volume problem exist?

I live in Turkey and here the traffic is like hell!! No lane lines in the road, even if there is, no one cares about them. No one cares about pedestrians and they are used to it so they can rush to the road anywhere, anytime!! So to drive safely here we generally need maximum attention! So yes I need a simple volume control and I will be using Centrafuse.

Well, the problem is not linearity (is that the correct word?). The problem is that attenuating a digital signal causes a loss in resolution. In that aspect, Vista or Windows 7 is better than XP, because calculations are done in 32 bits (if i remember correctly). KMixer in XP, does the calculation in 16 bits, effectively causing a loss in reslution. The more the attenuation is the more chances you're going to notice the loss in resolution. So, if i was to use windows 7, i wouln't care so much. Under windows XP, you could be a little more creative. In my case, I'm using Reaper as a vst host, which supports sending keyboard shortcuts. Using autoit or a similar scripting language, makes it easy to control reaper's volume controls, which make the calculations in my soundcard's resolution (24 bits in my case). My windows volume control is set to 100% (No attenuation by KMixer).

At the end of the day, it's your decision. If you want to give more info about your experience, knowledge, how much you're willing to spend etc I'm sure many experienced posters are willing to help you. I'm not so experienced, nor my knowledge is academic or scientific, but I'll definitely try to help you

Originally Posted by HuseyinOzsut

So when using audiomulch or console, volume control is a problem? Why is that? is it hard for windows to increase and decrease volumes of all channels linearly? My dream about going active with soundcard will be harder than I thought I guess?? Will all soundcards and in all dsp programs, does this volume problem exist?

I live in Turkey and here the traffic is like hell!! No lane lines in the road, even if there is, no one cares about them. No one cares about pedestrians and they are used to it so they can rush to the road anywhere, anytime!! So to drive safely here we generally need maximum attention! So yes I need a simple volume control and I will be using Centrafuse.

lol, i read a article in a car mag once on the traffic in that area, not something i desire to try to survive...

the volume control is more related to Windows, then it is any audio processing program.

if you use Virtual Audio Cable to get the signal into the vst host, it does have programming to be allowed to be controlled by the windows volume control(just set it as your primary audio output).

the windows volume control relies on the processor to make adjustments, and the more cpu power you use, the slower the volume control is going to be--this is why most evident in carputers using audio processing because the audio processing can use the cpu so much.

normally, audio processing will slow down your computer a little, so things like switching playlists take a little longer-which is not big deal for a playlist to take 1 second longer to pop up, but it is not as noticable as trying to change the volume-- where it is expected to be quick.

the disadvantage to using the computer volume control is system freezes-- if your computer freezes at full volume, you have to let it go. an external knob will allow you to turn it down, and at least get off the road to trouble shoot..

i would highly recommend researching external volume controls-- there are a couple of options-- just for some ideas, i am posting sonic electronix links, but there are plenty of other places/companies that make/sell similar products:

this is one of the many analog knobs that simply ties into the rca's:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...+Control-.html

the advantage is that it is small, cheap, and simple, the disadvantage is that it is only stereo(though i have seen 4 channel versions), and you must run rca's to and from it-- and for most audiophile-type audio systems, long rca runs are bad.

you might be able to find a knob that you can re-work to control multiple stereo pairs, but i haven't seen one yet..

what i use:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...io+CL-RLC.html

a preamp, and remote mountable volume control, and they are linkable, so you could have one volume knob controlling multiple units(i have one knob controlling 3 units).
from what i can gather, the preamp is completely analog, so the signal is not getting changed too much. the disadvantage is the cost--about $50 ea.

otherwise, there are eq's like this that can also have a volume control, some like this one has a preamp also:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...nics+HFEQ.html

the disadvantage for a audiomulch/console setup being that it has one stereo input, and internally crosses over all the speakers, and that you have to run all the rcas to it.

ok. Now I have to find a way to have my volume control software based. Because My car Pc is in trunk, so my soundcad. I use 80cm Acoustic Research audio cables from soundcard to amplifiers... So everything is ideal, except volume control! I can use (actually I want to use) windows 7, it is not a problem for me. I own hippo hi-fi usb dac. But if I buy a new soundcard I'll be using it in my home stereo! So I prefer to buy a new card and solve Active crossover need with my new soundcard. But if it will be painfull, I'll go for a Audioson Bitone (I don't want to do it, because then I'll be buying audioson bitone and another high quality soundcard for home! And also the fun part of owing a carputer is to be able to say: "All these things are done by it, and I did all of it!!")

So I can not go for an analog volume control. If you can say that volume control in windows 7 won't effect the sound quality much, then I'll take it... But I tried VAC and didn't like it much... Can we have a solution in windows 7 without VAC? (Considering that I own a soundcard, which is ASIO compatible and has internal routing.)

My carputer is Core2 DUO 2.33 with 2Gb ddr2 800 ram and 32gb ssd system hdd. So I guess ı won't have performance problems much?

If you have a soundcard with ASIO support & Internal Routing - You don't need VAC

If the drivers of the soundcard is good you should be able to control the volume with the windows master line


Another solution for volume control can be a MIDI controller
AudioMulch supports MIDI controllers and it shouldn't be hard to use one for controller gain or whatever you want

Ok! Thank you! Then i Will find a decent soundcard and if i can't get volume control work, i Will find a small midi controller... i also don't know wether console and audiomulch have big differences or not. From what i read i understood that both is used much. Does these programs or asio driver have sleep/ hibernate issues or those issues are due to hardware?

Now I'm sure that i Will be using soundcard for active crossover. All i need is to find a decent soundcard which supports asio, have internal routing, 8 channel outs And preferably usb or pci express!

sleep/hibernate issues are usually related to the sound cards driver, some have problems, some don't. whatever sound card you plan on getting, try to search for known problems on some forums.

Ok now I'm searching for some soundcards... If I decide to go with a pci, I'll change my mainboard. I can sell my mini itx and buy a micro atx for much less; but then I'll need to build a new case... Anyway what I found so far:

- E-MU 1820M ---- PCI card, found around 300$. People like its sound quality, so far from what I read I understand that it has internal routing.

- Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe ----- PCI express, Around 260$. so far from what I read I understand that it has internal routing. Changeable op-amps...

- Onkyo Wavio SE-200 pci ----- PCI, Around 250$. Can't get enough information about it. So if I can't find answers for my questions, I can not risk 250$!!

- M-audio Delta 1010Lt ------- PCI, Around 195$. I understand that many people use it in here. It is the cheapest solution so far I found...

If you can compare these cards, lets say E-Mu and Delta 1010, will there be significant sound quality difference between delta 1010 and E-Mu?

From my experience
Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe - Doesn't have internal routing , Where did you see that it is? I have a friend using it with A4A
It's a good but expensive card , Also you need room for 2 Cards to utilize 8 analog outputs

The cheapest card you can get is probably what I'm using : Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 HIFI
It has changable opamps , internal routing and ASIO ( With no problems on hibernation )

The only problem are the drivers which are not good enough but acceptable , Just use XP and youll be good

Also for PCI you don't definatly need Micro-ATX , There are plenty of Mini-ITX boards with PCI