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Thread: Multiple preset time alignments and levels?

  1. #1
    Constant Bitrate Lincolnman's Avatar
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    Multiple preset time alignments and levels?

    Is there any way to do multiple time alignments and level adjustments that would be presets?
    I mean, I can adjust time alignment for where I sit as the driver, and that's all well and good, but what if I have a passenger? I would then need to adjust it again for the best compromise for the two people in the front seats. Then I pick up another passenger who climbs into the back seat, and we need a third adjustment to accommodate all three, and so on. I don't want to be messing with the settings for twenty minutes or more after picking up my date, nor do I want to listen to her complain that it "sounds funny" because the levels and alignment are wrong.
    So I am wondering if there is a way to "preset" for multiple arrangements.
    Anyone have any thoughts, aside from three DSP units and hard wire switching? That's the only solution I came up with, and obviously it would be expensive, complex and likely unreliable. So is there a way to do this with software?
    Electronics work on magic smoke - don't let it out.

  2. #2
    Constant Bitrate Lincolnman's Avatar
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    Scratch that.
    The answer is yes.
    Name:  x975PDSP-o_tuning.jpeg
Views: 491
Size:  94.4 KB
    Screen shot from Helix.
    It says "Setup A, B, C, D" but that's apparently only for the software side of it. The unit itself only stores up to two, and I figure I need three. I can make it work with two - but why be disappointed when spending this kind of money?
    So it is possible - but how about a unit that does three setups?
    Last edited by Lincolnman; 08-13-2012 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Clarity
    Electronics work on magic smoke - don't let it out.

  3. #3
    Constant Bitrate Lincolnman's Avatar
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    I asked Crutchfield about the Helix that you see a screen shot for above.
    They said it was a new product to them and that they didn't know much about it, nor did they have a factory rep contact number for the company. I gave them my email and the questions regarding tuning for four presets but only having two and also asked if there was an "auto-set" based on a microphone to get a jump start on getting things right.
    This is the email I got from them the next day...

    Chris,
    Our research team has responded to my request about that Helix DSP. Their response is below:
    The P-DSP has two memory banks that can be used to store EQ profiles. Through the PC-Tool software, it allows you to create and switch between 4 different profiles while tuning the unit. However, when storing the profile, the user can only store one of these four to the internal memory. The other profile memory bank can only be loaded by using the Micro-SD card slot on the chassis of the P-DSP. When a profile is loaded this way, it is stored in the secondary memory bank. Currently the only way to switch between the two profiles is by pressing and releasing the control button located next to the status light for approx. one second. When the unit is reading mem. bank one,(the one stored through the software), the indicator light should be green. When accessing mem. bank two, the light should turn to an amber color.
    There are plans for there to be a remote controller eventually for these units which hopefully will give expanded and easier access to perform this task. As of yet, no word has come from Germany as far as availability timeframe.
    Regarding the microphone question, the unit cannot accept a microphone input. To properly tune the system, the user needs a computer with an RTA program and microphone going into it to “see” the audio feedback. The other option is to use a standalone RTA such as an Audio Control unit.
    Hopefully this helps answer the questions. If you have any others please let me know
    Thanks
    Hunter

    I also found this unit http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/5247...rocessing.html which they say has 8 (!) memory presets, but it has no screenshots, I have never heard of the company, and the owner's manual was obviously written by someone who thought they were much cleverer than they actually are.

    So I am still looking. Does anyone have any thoughts on what might work better?
    Electronics work on magic smoke - don't let it out.

  4. #4
    MySQL Error soundman98's Avatar
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    audio control has been around for many, many years-- before the more current batch of sound processors, just about any sq-ish audio build had some sort of audio control gear in it--weather it was one of their nice preamps, or that dsp you linked. they are/used to be, the go-to low level audio manipulation company..

    i never used them personally, but i have always been impressed by the feature lists.. the only reason i never used them is that was before i had the do-all carpc, and it was significantly out of my price range at the time... if i ditched the carpc, i would def. use some of their gear, had i a use for it..

  5. #5
    Constant Bitrate Lincolnman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
    the only reason i never used them is that was before i had the do-all carpc, and it was significantly out of my price range at the time... if i ditched the carpc, i would def. use some of their gear, had i a use for it..
    So - are you using AudioMulch to achieve the same results, or why does your carpc negate the necessity for this?
    Electronics work on magic smoke - don't let it out.

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    MySQL Error soundman98's Avatar
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    yes, i'm using AM at the moment, so i don't feel a need for a different sound processor. the preamps also don't work with my current setup because of a lack of volume control that my current set of cl-rlc's provide. currently, all i've got setup is x-over points.. i still intend to add a 32band eq per set of drivers, and eventually time alignment, just haven't gotten around to it..

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    Are you really that far off that you need multiple presets? I could see 2 MAYBE - 1 for you only & 1 centered for passengers. In my experience, most people don't give a crap about how good your SQ is - "OOOO you got subs". I sure as hell wouldn't put the time & effort into 4 presets just for time alignment - no way you'll get it right for 4 different listening positions anyway.

    I don't think the DQL-8 has time alignment. It's been years since I looked, but I don't think anything audio control made had time alignment (and their website is as crappy as it was ~7 years ago). That's why I went with the RF 360.2 & it's !@%^&&*% POS bluetooth control.

    That Helix looks nice - wish it was around when I put my system in.

  8. #8
    Constant Bitrate Lincolnman's Avatar
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    I don't understand when people say things like "I wouldn't bother modifying something like that so I don't think you should". Then you don't do it. In fact, don't bother to modify anything. I used to sell stereo equipment and I would talk to people and have conversations like this;
    "What makes these speakers worth it?"
    "The consumer determines a product's worth - if you don't buy it it was not worth that to you. In that case I cannot convince you it is worth more."
    "No, I mean like - what do I get?"
    "You have sound now - you will still have sound. It may sound better, it may not. This is personal preference. If you think your system sounds good now, then don't change it. If you think it could sound better - tell me where it needs work."
    That's the point. Some people like stock stereos because it's "good enough". Some people like Wal-Mart specials because "it's louder". Some people hit the stereo shop and drop $1000 because "I want to really rock/bump". Others buy McIntosh, pay out the demon hole and never look back.
    I didn't ask IF I should modify it in this way, I asked HOW.
    No rudeness intended, I just tend to get these responses a lot on things because I am doing it different. If it was the same, I wouldn't need to ask for help on how.
    Electronics work on magic smoke - don't let it out.

  9. #9
    Constant Bitrate Lincolnman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamthehor View Post
    I don't think the DQL-8 has time alignment.
    Oh, it appears you are correct. Bummer.
    Electronics work on magic smoke - don't let it out.

  10. #10
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    I'm by no means suggesting you shouldn't modify to your hearts content. Hell I don't own anything I haven't tweaked (much to my wife's annoyance). I opened this thread specifically because it dealt with something I'd like to improve in my truck (imaging, or at least the control of my DSP).
    My suggestion wasn't worded correctly, and done with a sarcastic tone that doesn't play nice over the innernets, so I apologize for that. For me, the cost/benefit for tuning for multiple people in my vehicle is very low, sounds like it's not the same for you.
    I'll suggest a different approach to what you want to do:
    DSP exists because no listening environment is perfect. You're going to have tradeoffs no matter what you do. Time alignment & multiple listening positions are opposing forces. If you want to to have better staging in that large of an area, you might look at your placement & type of drivers to make their sweet spot bigger, rather than trying to move it via TA. Then you can focus it to your position with TA, needing much fewer 'presets'. Presets in your scenario above are going to be difficult, since it will be hard to predict who will be riding in what position & how they will perceive the sound (or if they even know the difference between crappy, ok & great sound).
    I'm assuming you're trying to get your stage Up, forward & wide for music SQ. Do that, add a little fill in the rear (I have rears faded out unless somebody needs them) & you will please 99% of those who listen to your system. Probably you will be only one that ever notices a difference between driver & passenger positions (I know that from experience).

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