Software options for Tuning

**CarAudioGuru** · 11-21-2006, 05:55 PM

Actually I designed (and built) an amplifier (1989) that had an detachable crossover with a 9 band parametric EQ built-in. It was for Phoenix Gold and the model was MPH-6300. We showed it at 1990 CES. Unforutantly the BOM (Bill of materials) was over $24,000.00 for the amplifier and we never took it into production. But it was WAY cool. So easy to dial in any system with a crossover that was adjustable 6/12/18 or 24 dB per octave for front/rear/sub with 3 bands of parametric EQ for front/rear/sub (and varaible phase for the subwoofer out) We had fun building the cool stuff, that is for sure. After market audio computers? It will be, but not big. Not for a while anyway. Soon you will NOT be able to intergrate anything aftermarket into cars. At least new cars that is for sure. But keep pushing the "envelope" that is for sure.

**CarAudioGuru** · 11-21-2006, 06:09 PM

...DO not "track" and are NOT accurate at ALL! By sometimes as much as200% off! Really. And the ones that are "sort of accurate" aren't accurate left to right channel level wise. Big reason is cost of accurate pots. Ever $0.01 you put into a car audio amp costs 5 times at retail. So when other manuafacturers use TIP35/36 output devices (for example) These cost $0.56 cents a piece. Where as the old PG amps Toshiba outputs (the ones that Focal uses now) cost $2.51 each. And at 8 parts for a MS-275 that is $20.08 -JUST for output devices! Or $100 retail as the other guys 8 -TIP35/36's cost a whopping $4.48 , or $22.00 at retail. So a PG amp (old days..NOT now!) cost 4 times as much as anyone else becasue the parts cost 4 times as much! But rated at same power, and swung the same amount of voltage into the same impedance, but TIP35/36's are 3 meg parts and the Toshiba's are 25 Meg parts. BIG difference sonically. (by the way Audison amps use 12 Meg parts for "entry level amplifier) and 30 meg for LRx, just as a current comparison) Speed is a BIG deal in outputs!

Pots are similar and you can get dual gang or quad gang pots for $0.12 cents. Or real ones (Nobles, etc) for $6.00 each. Laser matched with in 0.01% BIG difference in performace, if anyone cares...............

Just food for thought. Not always the way you think it is.

**durwood** · 11-21-2006, 06:10 PM

It was for Phoenix Gold and the model was MPH-6300. We showed it at 1990 CES. Unforutantly the BOM (Bill of materials) was over $24,000.00 for the amplifier and we never took it into production. But it was WAY cool.

Awesome. Nothing like going over the top...and back in 1990 that would have been impressive.

Soon you will NOT be able to intergrate anything aftermarket into cars. At least new cars that is for sure. But keep pushing the "envelope" that is for sure.

Mazda tried to stop me but I found a way.

crossovers are more set & forget, especially if you use an rta to set your baseline, but it is nice to be able to tweek & play with the crossover points too if you need to tweek those transition areas a bit.... I have played around with my crossovers in my car way more than I normally would have, mainly because the alpine does make it so easy to do that, as would a pc of course....

now when I had to jump from my trunk to my cabin while tweeking the eqt's.... THAT sucked

True on the crossovers. I don't really do anything to mine anymore unless I change out the drivers.

I hear you on the EQ.

So CARAudioGuru...who do you work for today? Audison perhaps? My A/D/S has some mileage on it. hint hint

**turbocad6** · 11-21-2006, 06:10 PM

yeah, I had an early ppi art series x-over that docked into a base, but you could undock it & extend it to inside the car with a cable.....

I also did this trick with rca's to pull the eqt's into the car for heavy tuning sessions...

**CarAudioGuru** · 11-21-2006, 06:17 PM

EQT's and LONG *** cables. The ONLY way to fly!

Hated those EQ's

I work for Elettromedia-usa (Audison/Hertz/Connection product lines in the USA) Working with crazy Italians! Its FUN! And the PG amp MPH-6300 was set to sell for $125,000.00 retail. Impressive? HELL YES is was mighty impressive. The ONLY amplifer even close is the THESIS by Audison Most incredible amplifier I have ever seen for car, that is for sure. Thats why I am working for them, because they GET IT! They understand the electronics and board layouts , tonality of drivers, etc. Where everyone is just playing at it. If it ain't fun, why bother???

**durwood** · 11-21-2006, 06:24 PM

Hahaha A little OT but since you are here...CarAudioGuru

I know you like Audison that is apparent. I only ever compared them to the JL line because it was all that was comparable at Tweeter at the time. Sounded much warmer and natrual, you could tell what JL was missing. Have you ever compared them to Trutechnology? I was looking at purchasing those a year or two ago and I talked to the designer at CES, good man. I want to replace my amps probably by next year sometime.

**turbocad6** · 11-21-2006, 06:31 PM

hey, I have a pair of hertz 8"s in the doors of another car of mine... awsome drivers... no one I know has ever even heard of hertz...

**CarAudioGuru** · 11-21-2006, 06:32 PM

John Fairchild was the designer. Old friend of mine. Kind of looks like the scientist from "Back to the Future" movie series right? Unforuately he passed away 6 months ago

Great guy!! Trust me, look into the LRx 5.1K It isn't out yet, but it ROCKS! 160 x2 front, 50 X 2 rear 1,000 @ 2 ohms sub!

We'll be shipping here in about 30 days

Biased ME? YEAH!! Remember what I always say as I always tell the truth. NOT becasue I am such a great guy, BUT becasue I can't remember all the lies!!! I teach in my semiars that the truth will ALWAYS win out, becasue as human beings we can sense people lying. You can FEEL it when people tell you straight up what is going on. Anyway...I NEVER talk on these forums becasue I will get slammed with too many e-mails and questions. I gots work to do!!!!

Have fun! take everything with a "grain of salt" (even my stuff!!)

**RedGTiVR6** · 11-21-2006, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by CarAudioGuru

Really great information. Doubtfull very many people will stick a computer into their car audio system (or visaversa) But interesting research. VERY interesting actually. Good job REDGTIV6

By the way Audison amplifiers are VERY accurate in their crossover modules in all the series (SRx, LRx, and VRx) Really!! just an FYI

Great work, keep it up.
CarAudioGuru

Thanks for the kudos. We're working hard on this project.

I will beg to differ on opponion though about few people using PCs for Audio.

I now have two world titles under my belt using a CarPC as a source unit, so far, I'm the only one to do so. However, at USACi finals this past weekend, there were no fewer than 4 cars with PCs in them in the SQ lanes alone. One being an Expert car that took second place. It was used to tune the amplifiers in the car.

I know of at least 2 other vehicles that will have PCs in their cars for competition next year. I know that Scott Buwalda has been running a PC in his car since around '98. After speaking with him this weekend, I very highly doubt that PCs are a far cry for audio nuts.

I told him about this group of folks and what we were trying to do, he was highly interested, talked with my husband and myself for about 30 minutes and gave me his business card. Wanted me to get with him about it. Also threw out the statement that he believed that CarPCs would turn the 12v industry on it's head.

Considering the things that are being worked on by the folks here at MP3Car.com and StreetDeck, I highly doubt CarPCs are just a fad. On the contrary, Volkswagen North America is working on a project right now for OEM use, it was at SEMA this year, as well as at the Microsoft conference. I'll see if I can find the press release even.

There were a lot of folks that thought that high end audio in a car would never make it. Just this weekend, I had a chance to have a couple of Chris Owen's home audio guru friends sit in my car, only to be completely amazed at the subtle nuances that they were able to hear in my car that even their super high end home systems are not able to produce. Now, I'm not saying that my car is the end all be all, I'm just saying that the high end car audio market is gaining speed again (which is a good thing for all of us), and with that, you will start to see that the CarPC market is going to take off.

Afterall, that is my job now, as sales director....

**CarAudioGuru** · 11-21-2006, 06:39 PM

Tell Chris and Scott "Hi" from Larry Frederick (ex PG guy) Haven't seen them in at least 8 years. Good guys. Maybe I'll get the USACi finals this year. isn't it soon? Or has it past? Been crazy busy with CES.