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Thread: Software options for Tuning

  1. #81
    Variable Bitrate FyreDaug's Avatar
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    I have a question, winamp has its own EQ built in (which sucks mind you) but when it was new to me I was trying it out a while ago and I could never get it to sound good. I had to crank up the bass a little (eq'ing by ear) and it would always sound messy. As soon as eq was gone, BOOM it sounded better. The cure for this problem was a 10band eq, called 4front eq and there it worked much much better, and I actually used this eq in my last carputer setup with winamp, but its 1 octave so tuning was a little worse, and I had some sharp mids somewhere I could never really pinpoint. The cure for that? This 31band EQ. So my question is: Why did the winamp eq sound really messy? 4front sounded just fine, I hope this 31band wont get messy, and im going to use it to equalize, no boosting

  2. #82
    Variable Bitrate FyreDaug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durwood View Post
    My brain hurts I am digging back into the depths of my mind trying to recal what I learned in school 4 years ago about sampling theories and dsp...if only I had my books that are locked up in my storage unit. I am going to have to roll this around the old noggin this weekend.

    Here is something else to chew on along with the "bit-perfect discussion" taken from the winamp creative soundcard resampling plugin:
    I dont know what that means

    What is the deal with the output frequency, does it really make that much of a difference? Am I going to miss out on some quality if I dont pay attention to this? Im going to simply be running analog output, no digital in this setup (actually wish I still was using my home theater reciever with optical input AND BUILT IN TIME DELAYS like I was before, but it was bulky and only gave me a measly 90w max rms output per channel, which would technically be fine, but I wanted something a little different this time. It was a Yamaha RXV450 if anyone cares

  3. #83
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    Read here if you're really interested, you'll just have to decide on your own if it's worth the time to get it to work.

    FAQ: What is Bit-Perfect?
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  4. #84
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyreDaug View Post
    I dont know what that means

    What is the deal with the output frequency, does it really make that much of a difference? Am I going to miss out on some quality if I dont pay attention to this?
    Some people can't hear past 16kHz. So distortion in frequencies above that is not big deal for some. Most mp3s encoded at a normal rate of 128-192 drop information past 16kHz anyways so if you are going to be only listening to mp3's you won't notice much at all. But a 5% error at 16kHz on CD's can be a fairly noticeable problem to the trained ear. 20% error at 19kHz..yikes if you can hear that high.

  5. #85
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    I can hear at 19k, but I don't think I'd be able to notice a 20% error....lol

    Though, there's not much 'hearing' at 19k anyways...hehehe
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  6. #86
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durwood View Post

    EDIT:
    For those using the creative sound cards, I saw a winamp plugin that resamples BEFORE it gets to the soundcard so that it is more accurate than the hardware doing it. It sounds like a bandaid for the 44.1-48kHz resampling problem. Has anyone tried it? I guess its process intensive from a review.

    http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=141806
    FYI- You can't use the asio ouput plugin AND the 44.1 to 48kHz resampling plugin at the same time because they are both output plugins for winamp.

    Though, there's not much 'hearing' at 19k anyways...hehehe

    Ya I don't think I could tell if a dog whistle is producing the proper response either. That could be painful.

  7. #87
    Variable Bitrate FyreDaug's Avatar
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    Okay, well if we can only hear to 19k, well 16k mostly apaprantly. Then why the need for 44.1k and 48k? 96k? ill go read that link red, but I gotta go to work soon

  8. #88
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durwood View Post
    FYI- You can't use the asio ouput plugin AND the 44.1 to 48kHz resampling plugin at the same time because they are both output plugins for winamp.
    Correction: I missed it but there is a newer plugin to send the ouput to another output. After installing, vew the readme on how to set it up. THE ASIO plugin for winamp will also do the resampling. So you can either use this plugin or the ASIO plugin from my understanding.

    http://www.hqsoftproc.upcnet.ro/

    [The SBLive!/Audigy issue]

    SBLive! and Audigy1/2 soundcard's DSP work at 48KHz,
    so a big problem here for 44.1KHz streams.
    SBLive! has a low quality resample to 48KHz algoritm.

    This is the SBLive! (and not only) problem:

    absolutely any audio stream is converted to 48KHz
    (for Audigy1/2 it is converted to 48KHz or 96KHz or 192KHz
    if not using DSP - see below note)
    the worst performance is 44.1KHz audio streams (cd audio).

    Audigy has the same issue even if it is promoted
    as a 192KHz/24bit soundcard (please note the important *,
    * means that 192KHz is in 2 channels only, and 96KHz
    is in 6 or 8 channels, BUT with DSP disabled, that is
    with absolutely no effects loaded (not even bass and treble),
    so if you use at least one effect or bass/trebe than Audigy2
    will switch to DSP and process everything to 48KHz.

    1.393% IMD Distortion at 15KHz for Audigy2
    (check www.tomshardware.com for details)

    [The solution:]

    my high quality resample to 48KHz
    (or any frequency>= 48000, that means 96KHz and 192KHz too).

    Testing results:

    using SBLive! to resample to 48000:
    19KHz IMD=20%
    18KHz IMD=10%
    16KHz IMD=5%
    14KHz IMD=1%
    You don't believe me ...???? I've included in component pack generated tones
    used in my test versions of 44100Hz and 48000Hz ... Should sound the same !!!

    using my component for KernelPrecision=100 (that means kernelsize 16000 samples
    at resampling to 48000Hz):
    19KHz IMD=0.01%
    18KHz IMD=0.001% ; can't measure less than this
    16KHz IMD=0%

    CPU Load:
    <35% on Duron 825MHz for KernelPrecision 100
    <22% on Duron 825MHz for KernelPrecision 50
    <15% on AthlonXP2000+ for KernelPrecision 120

    [known issues]
    Can't resample to a lower samplefrequency than the input.

    [configuration items]

    <TargetSampleRate> specifies resample target frequency of filter (should be
    48000 for SBLive!/Audigy1/2 cards if used in DSP mode, or 96000 for Audigy1/2
    if not used in DSP mode, and this must be the working Samplerate of the DSP
    on your soundcard!!!

    Note: for Audigy2 in 2 channel mode and no DSP you can set this to 192KHz

    <KernelPrecision> is a coeficient to calculate the filter kernel size of the
    lowpass filter in the multirate filter, for keeping the same quality of the
    filtering regardless of the input samplerate. From my tests I would recommend
    50 to be the absolute minimum, but I left the option to enter a lower value
    for people with slower machines. More than 300 is useless as it can't improve higher.

    altering this results:
    higher KernelPrecision => higher quality more CPU load.
    lower KernelPrecision => lower quality less CPU load.
    don't alter this if you do not know what means this or if you do not check
    the results on a spectrum analyzer!

    [some hints]
    If you really want your SBLive/Audigy/Audigy2 to sound perfect I recommand you
    to download and install KX Drivers wich you can find at: www.kxproject.com.
    These drivers are freeware.
    Best sound : KX Drivers + HQSoftProc SoftwareResampling plugin. Try it!
    Best results for any soundcard:
    MAD plugin + HQSoftProc SoftwareResampling + KernelStreaming plugin
    or mpg123 + ASIO plugin

    [recommended setup]
    1. for Audigy1/2 with DSP disabled:
    at least 150 KernelPrecision
    96000 Output samplerate (for Audigy2 in 2channels mode use 192KHz if you
    don't use KX drivers and, of course no DSP)
    24bit output bitdepth
    32bit output bitdepth for MAD plugin (does not allow FP->16bit conversion,
    but to FP->32bit integer)
    64bit floating point for Shibatch mpg123 plugin (audio stream passed directly
    to the output plugin, without roundings)
    use KX drivers (at least 3538i), but be aware to use
    WaveHQ and disable DSP in "24/96 Router", or if you want ASIO, you can use
    ASIO4ALL in combination with setting in KX ASIO control panel the ASIO Format
    to 24bit/96khz 8+8. If using different format in KX ASIO then make sure you setup
    the output plugin with the same settings as in KX ASIO control panel (e.g. if
    want to use 16/48KHz setup my plugin to output to 48KHz and 32bit)

    2. for SBLive! and Audigy1/2 in DSP mode:
    150 KernelPrecision
    48000 Output Samplerate
    32bit output bitdepth (matches internal processing of SBLive bitdepth)
    32bit output bitdepth for MAD plugin (to improve rounding)
    use KX drivers

    Please note that some versions of the Creative drivers don't handle 32bit properly
    so you have to switch to 16 bit or 24 bit.

    [Contact:]
    email: [email protected]
    web: www.HQSoftProc.go.ro


    P.S. Haven't you noticed that DVD movies (sampled to 48000Hz) sounded perfect
    on your sound system and Audio CD's didn't????? This is why!

    another advice: Use KX drivers for SBLive and Audigy and Audigy2 soundcards. You will get
    professional EQ-s, filters, 5.1,6.1,7.1 Decoders, but you will need some time to understand
    how to configure it

    download it from www.kxproject.com

  9. #89
    Variable Bitrate FyreDaug's Avatar
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    Should I look into another plugin aswell? Im new to "plugging in" winamp, and a good chunk of my music collection is all flac ripped, so if there is any way to get better quality im all for it. I got a Auzen...something or other HDA 7.1 X-plosion sound card. Its goot for 2.8v outputs ON the card, which is the only reason I got it really. Can I use anything fancy?

  10. #90
    MySQL Error scott_fx's Avatar
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    stumbled across this thread and it may be of some interest to you guys and red:
    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...545&highlight=
    New System in progress:
    M10k
    Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
    Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
    Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
    Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
    Transflective Xenarc

    My Car Pc Install
    My Boat Pc worklog

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