Reflective Fujitsu tablet as a daytime monitor

So I'm in the planning stage for a carputer system for my 2008 Sequoia.

I want something big up front, but I plan to keep the headunit. So it's not going to be an integrated solution.

I want a big transflective screen, but I'm not willing to pay for those currently in the market. They're small and over priced. I'd rather buy TWO screens, a cheap 7" regular one in the overhead console for night time viewing and a big transflective/reflective one for day time use (I mostly do my driving during daytime). The screens would be mirrored and as one becomes invisible, I start using the other.

So for the second screen I'm thinking of using a Fujitsu slate tablet PC with a reflective screen (which I suppose gets brighter the more light it gets, and it's completely invisible during nighttime.

So I'm thinking of a Fujitisu ST 5011D or something even cheaper. I would adapt a touchscreen to it, and probably wouldn't use the digitizer (as Turbocad did on his FX, I think). The Tablet does not have VGA input, but I thought about using RealVNC, MaxVista or the free ZoneScreen.

So do you think the cheap Fujitsu has the horsepower to play DVD, Visualizations, with the above software? There's also the ST5031D, or the 4121? The 5011D is a Pentium Mobile 1GHz with 512MB RAM for instance.

All the processing is done via Core2duo in a miniITX case, it's just a matter of displaying what is being sent to it? Anybody ever tried that?

I'll think about mounting options later, but I'm thinking of a tray coming from the huge console between the front seats, that can be hidden from view when not in use, and that can slide and tilt up to the OEM screen if need be, hovering above the cupholders...

Of course, I'd have to power both computers at the same time, I have a M4ATX, not sure what else I'd need for this to work, and I'd probably would connected them via wired network for speed, but I'd test wi-fi too (it would work as a wireless monitor, how cool is that?).

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

RH

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

So I'm in the planning stage for a carputer system for my 2008 Sequoia.

I want something big up front, but I plan to keep the headunit. So it's not going to be an integrated solution.

I want a big transflective screen, but I'm not willing to pay for those currently in the market. They're small and over priced. I'd rather buy TWO screens, a cheap 7" regular one in the overhead console for night time viewing and a big transflective/reflective one for day time use (I mostly do my driving during daytime). The screens would be mirrored and as one becomes invisible, I start using the other.

So for the second screen I'm thinking of using a Fujitsu slate tablet PC with a reflective screen (which I suppose gets brighter the more light it gets, and it's completely invisible during nighttime.

So I'm thinking of a Fujitisu ST 5011D or something even cheaper. I would adapt a touchscreen to it, and probably wouldn't use the digitizer (as Turbocad did on his FX, I think). The Tablet does not have VGA input, but I thought about using RealVNC, MaxVista or the free ZoneScreen.

So do you think the cheap Fujitsu has the horsepower to play DVD, Visualizations, with the above software? There's also the ST5031D, or the 4121? The 5011D is a Pentium Mobile 1GHz with 512MB RAM for instance.

All the processing is done via Core2duo in a miniITX case, it's just a matter of displaying what is being sent to it? Anybody ever tried that?

I'll think about mounting options later, but I'm thinking of a tray coming from the huge console between the front seats, that can be hidden from view when not in use, and that can slide and tilt up to the OEM screen if need be, hovering above the cupholders...

Of course, I'd have to power both computers at the same time, I have a M4ATX, not sure what else I'd need for this to work, and I'd probably would connected them via wired network for speed, but I'd test wi-fi too (it would work as a wireless monitor, how cool is that?).

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Good luck with this. Turbocad has upgraded to the ST5111 and I'm running the ST5031D. I have a few ST4121D's laying around in my basement, so I may be able to help. Honestly, I think you're going to be disappointed with the latency of the remote screen display software even with a 100Mb ethernet connection. I'd recommend you start experimenting with that before you spend any money on major hardware. Once you get that side working to your satisfaction, I think even an ST4121 might meet your needs if all is going to do is run a touchscreen overlay and VNC-type program. Are you planning to keep the Fujitsu's front lighting?

Oh, I didn't know that the Fujitsu (with reflective screen) had front lighting. You mean like some iPaqs? (the only other small device with sunlight readable screen I know of). I thought it was too big for that. So may the 5031D can be used at night after all? Even better!

Now your main point, you say I may be disappointed with the latency...hummm, that's bad news. So I think I should do some experimenting.

Thank you for your help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Oh, I didn't know that the Fujitsu (with reflective screen) had front lighting. You mean like some iPaqs? (the only other small device with sunlight readable screen I know of). I thought it was too big for that. So may the 5031D can be used at night after all? Even better!

Now your main point, you say I may be disappointed with the latency...hummm, that's bad news. So I think I should do some experimenting.

Thank you for your help!

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I'm not familiar with the IPaqs, But I use mine day and night no problem. I actually turn down the lighting at night cause it tends to throw more light into the car than the screen. Another problem you need to consider is the size of the tablet guts - they're bigger than the screen. So its gonna take some serious planning inside the dash to accommodate both.

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Originally Posted by GizmoQ

I'm not familiar with the IPaqs, But I use mine day and night no problem. I actually turn down the lighting at night cause it tends to throw more light into the car than the screen. Another problem you need to consider is the size of the tablet guts - they're bigger than the screen. So its gonna take some serious planning inside the dash to accommodate both.

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So what you're saying is that this:

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Quote: Originally Posted by cool dude http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imag...s/viewpost.gif
Hi,

I just got a good deal on a Fujitsu Stylistic 3500R tablet that I want to set up as a bike PC. I bought this model for its reflective (outdoor) screen but obviously had not thought of the implications of having a screen with no backlight at all. :(

So, my main question is, can I add a backlight or sidelight to this tablet so that the screen will be visible in all lighting conditions? Also, the touchscreen seems a bit iffy in XP and requires a very firm push. I would need a glove friendly touchscreen so any advice would be welcomed. :)


Recommendation: Ditch it and start over!

Rationale: I used 3500s in my cars for three or four years. The R version was great for my convertible during the day and at dusk I'd swap the harddrive to an S model. No room nor power for a backlight in the R model.

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(here)

Is not valid for the newer reflective screens? That was what I was talking about...I thought any reflective screen could not iluminate much, guess I was way wrong...I'm still learning about this stuff, I going to download Fujitsu's manual in a minute...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GizmoQ

Another problem you need to consider is the size of the tablet guts - they're bigger than the screen. So its gonna take some serious planning inside the dash to accommodate both.

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Yes, I've seen Turbocad install, he did an awesome job putting it together. I don't have the talent, nor the will to part with my OEM Nav/Sat radio. It also controls my rear screen and other functions in the car. The Auto A/C can also be tricky to relocate to a meaningful position, it's doable, but it's not what I'm thinking at the moment.

I want to keep the tablet whole, just connected to the power source and network (for the display). It would somehow hinge, or be stored in the HUGE main console I barely use it anyway (and I would have room to spare still). Maybe some aluminum/steel hinges, mounted on the cup holders, then a RAM mount, or maybe hinges on the console itself.

I cut a piece of cardboard the size of a tablet PC (ST 5000) (220 mm x 324.1 mm x 23.0-24.9 mm) (page 41 on the user manual):

This is the car as it is viewed roughly from the driver's eye level:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...f55b8531d670_1


This would be the tablet openend in the standard position:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...3e8edbeb7416_1


When turned (via RAM mount?) to the driver's view:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...79396984182b_1


Then when not in use, it would simply be stored out of view in the console:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...7d6cb021341c_1

At least, that's the plan v. 1.0

:lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

So what you're saying is that this: (here)

Is not valid for the newer reflective screens? That was what I was talking about...I thought any reflective screen could not illuminate much, guess I was way wrong...I'm still learning about this stuff, I going to download Fujitsu's manual in a minute...

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Correct. All the tablets mentioned in the first post come in up to three varieties: 1) a backlit 12.1inch indoor/outdoor, ST5XX2, which is poor at best outdoors; 2) a backlit 10.4 indoor, ST5XX0, great indoors, but seriously lacking outdoors; and 3) a front-lit 10.4 outdoor, ST5XX1, great even in direct sunlight, but many say the colors are washed out and not very bright indoors. I have found that there are also several revisions out there for each of these varieties which makes my job of finding two just alike (one for the cars and one for development) almost impossible

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

I want to keep the tablet whole, just connected to the power source and network (for the display). It would somehow hinge, or be stored in the HUGE main console I barely use it anyway (and I would have room to spare still). Maybe some aluminum/steel hinges, mounted on the cup holders, then a RAM mount, or maybe hinges on the console itself.

I cut a piece of cardboard the size of a tablet PC (ST 5000) (220 mm x 324.1 mm x 23.0-24.9 mm) This would be the tablet opened in the standard position:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...3e8edbeb7416_1

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O.K. Now I understand your install plan. Thank God for cardboard cutouts and pictures. ;)

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

When turned (via RAM mount?) to the driver's view:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...79396984182b_1

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I also noticed from your cutouts that you plan to use the tablet in portrait mode. Given these pics, I need to warn you that you're going to have three cords protruding from the left side of the tablet (power at 2 1/2 inches from the base, CAT5 at 5 inches from base, and USB 1 inch from the top.) Your RAM mount is probably going to extend from the sides another inch all around. The power cable comes with a 90 degree connector; I think STAPLES sells a 90 degree USB adapter; but I've never seen a 90 degree CAT5 so you'll probably have to modify the connector there on your own. Its not going to be pretty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Then when not in use, it would simply be stored out of view in the console:
At least, that's the plan v. 1.0

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Will the overhead monitor be portrait also? Unlike Turbocad6, I use mine in both portrait and landscape. I've noticed that the digitizer is polarized for portrait mode (its less bright when viewed from the drivers position without rotating it to directly face the driver.)

The last issue for the hardware is startup/shutdown. Startup can be done with the power button on the tablet and shutdown can probably be done via software/OS (this is how I do it). While you're playing with the VNC-style programs, make sure you can get everything to run automatically on startup.

The Fujitsu automotive power supply for these things is extremely robust so it can be hooked straight to the battery through a relay triggered by the ACC. It does draw more amps than most 12volt accessories, but doesn't induce as much noise as I had expected. I've been using the same power supply for almost 10 years. The weakest link is the connector socket on the tablet. I don't remember how its setup on the ST5XXX, but over time, with continued connect/disconnects and me yanking and pulling the cord all over the world, I've had 1 in 6 fail completely and 2 are very loose. When it comes apart from the motherboard, you'll have to disassemble the tablet and carefully resolder the connections to the motherboard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GizmoQ

Correct. All the tablets mentioned in the first post come in up to three varieties: [snip] 3) a front-lit 10.4 outdoor, ST5XX1, great even in direct sunlight, but many say the colors are washed out and not very bright indoors.

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Thanks! So that is great news! I thought I would have to fold it away during the night. Okay, maybe it gets too bright anyway inside the car?

Do they have auto dimmer?

Quote:

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Given these pics, I need to warn you that you're going to have three cords protruding from the left side of the tablet (power at 2 1/2 inches from the base, CAT5 at 5 inches from base, and USB 1 inch from the top.) Your RAM mount is probably going to extend from the sides another inch all around. The power cable comes with a 90 degree connector; I think STAPLES sells a 90 degree USB adapter; but I've never seen a 90 degree CAT5 so you'll probably have to modify the connector there on your own. Its not going to be pretty.

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If it's going to work as a monitor only, I will only need the power + network. No USB plans (but I do already have a 90 degree USB connector), since the only thing running will be the VNC type program. But it's good to know the power cable already comes with a 90degree connector.

Now what RAM mount did you have in mind when you wrote this? There's no slide in tray for the fujitsu, only the standard laptop tray, right?

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Will the overhead monitor be portrait also?

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It will be a regular monitor like this, for night time use only, since it's not transflective:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...374f2e893a70_1

That's my FX - that 700 TSV is unreadable sometimes. On the Sequoia I want something bigger, but not on the overhead console, so that's why I'm going with a tablet.

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Unlike Turbocad6, I use mine in both portrait and landscape. I've noticed that the digitizer is polarized for portrait mode (its less bright when viewed from the drivers position without rotating it to directly face the driver.)

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So do you mean it has better viewing angles from the sides when it's in landscape mode? I thought that it's natural position would be in portrait mode, and that it would be at it's worst viewed from the "top" (in portrait mode), so when sideways, either the driver or the passenger would get the worst deal.

I want to be able to angle it to the driver anyway, I think it's safer to operate the closer it is to the console/driver's hands. With my setup above, on the overhead console, I have to extend my hands a bit much, and one commom complaint about the Sequoia OEM nav is that it's too far away from the driver's seat.

Quote:

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The last issue for the hardware is startup/shutdown. Startup can be done with the power button on the tablet and shutdown can probably be done via software/OS (this is how I do it). While you're playing with the VNC-style programs, make sure you can get everything to run automatically on startup.

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Can it be made to start up upon power or network connection? That would be great, not sure. But I don't mind pressing the button to start it up.

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The Fujitsu automotive power supply for these things is extremely robust so it can be hooked straight to the battery through a relay triggered by the ACC.

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Very useful info, again. Thanks!

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The weakest link is the connector socket on the tablet. I don't remember how its setup on the ST5XXX, but over time, with continued connect/disconnects and me yanking and pulling the cord all over the world, I've had 1 in 6 fail completely and 2 are very loose. When it comes apart from the motherboard, you'll have to disassemble the tablet and carefully resolder the connections to the motherboard.

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I wonder if I could find a way to solder the power cable/connector to the board, run the cord inside/on the sides of the tablet up to a connector and the plug into it's power supply with something like this:

http://www.powerwerx.com/_images/products/HF6_lrg.jpg



Thank you, GizmoQ. Very valuable and useful information, I can't thank you enough for your input! (I'll try to add to your rep in a minute).

Cheers,

RH.

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Thanks! So that is great news! I thought I would have to fold it away during the night. Okay, maybe it gets too bright anyway inside the car?
Do they have auto dimmer?

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I wouldn't say too bright depending on the skin background, but I've programmed my user buttons to pull up the dimmer menu. And no it doesn't have an auto dimmer, least not the 5011, 5021, or 5031 models. I don't know about the 5111.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

If it's going to work as a monitor only, I will only need the power + network. No USB plans (but I do already have a 90 degree USB connector), since the only thing running will be the VNC type program. But it's good to know the power cable already comes with a 90degree connector.

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Don't forget your touch panel will need USB and power. The internal digitizer is pen-only.

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Now what RAM mount did you have in mind when you wrote this? There's no slide in tray for the fujitsu, only the standard laptop tray, right?

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I modified the desktop dock to do what I needed and envision you could too. This eliminates the need for cables/cords protruding from the side of the tablet, but requires another 3/4 inch in depth and some basic fab/mod skills that you've already demonstrated in your previous installs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

It will be a regular monitor like this, for night time use only, since it's not transflective:

http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/im...374f2e893a70_1

That's my FX - that 700 TSV is unreadable sometimes. On the Sequoia I want something bigger, but not on the overhead console, so that's why I'm going with a tablet.

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The question was aimed at getting you to think through your skins. I noticed from your previous installs you mention both RideRunner and Centrafuse. Lets say your overhead screen can do 800x600 and you configure your CarPuter for that. When you switch to the tablet in portrait mode there's gonna be a lot of empty space at the side and bottom of the screen. My ST5031 is set to 1024x768 in landscape mode and 768x1024 in portrait. A skin not designed for portrait mode needs to be stretched and looks awful. The tablet won't do it automatically, so you'll need 2 skins or modify RR's general.ini for the skin when switching and then reloadRR. I'm almost positive the VNC-like programs won't do it cause they have enough going on just to preserve the scaling and aspect ratio of the original screen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

So do you mean it has better viewing angles from the sides when it's in landscape mode? I thought that it's natural position would be in portrait mode, and that it would be at it's worst viewed from the "top" (in portrait mode), so when sideways, either the driver or the passenger would get the worst deal.

I want to be able to angle it to the driver anyway, I think it's safer to operate the closer it is to the console/driver's hands. With my setup above, on the overhead console, I have to extend my hands a bit much, and one commom complaint about the Sequoia OEM nav is that it's too far away from the driver's seat.

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Correct. I thought that too till I tried using it in the car in portrait mode. Shouldn't be a problem if you use a RAM style mount that you can position it for the best viewing angle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Can it be made to start up upon power or network connection? That would be great, not sure. But I don't mind pressing the button to start it up.

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Power-on won't do it. I can only tell you that mine won't do it via network connection on the dock. My power button is close so its not a problem for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

I wonder if I could find a way to solder the power cable/connector to the board, run the cord inside/on the sides of the tablet up to a connector and the plug into it's power supply with something like this:

http://www.powerwerx.com/_images/products/HF6_lrg.jpg

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I'm sure you could. I had to do it to one of my ST3500s and was a simple process. Again if you were to modify a dock into your RAM, it wouldn't be necessary. I also like the single switch of the dock to remove the tablet instead of disconnecting several wires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Thank you, GizmoQ. Very valuable and useful information, I can't thank you enough for your input! (I'll try to add to your rep in a minute).

Cheers,

RH.

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No Problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GizmoQ

Don't forget your touch panel will need USB and power. The internal digitizer is pen-only.

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Can you fit a touch panel and still use the same case? Now I'm thinking this is not possible...hummm...I'd have to see again what Turbo did to split the monitor from the board...

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I modified the desktop dock to do what I needed and envision you could too. This eliminates the need for cables/cords protruding from the side of the tablet, but requires another 3/4 inch in depth and some basic fab/mod skills that you've already demonstrated in your previous installs.

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Actually that's an excellent idea. It's hard to see how tuff this dock is, I certainly would like to take it apart - I've seen pictures f your install, I think that might work for me (not on dash, but somewhere over my cupholders).

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The question was aimed at getting you to think through your skins. I noticed from your previous installs you mention both RideRunner and Centrafuse. Lets say your overhead screen can do 800x600 and you configure your CarPuter for that. When you switch to the tablet in portrait mode there's gonna be a lot of empty space at the side and bottom of the screen. My ST5031 is set to 1024x768 in landscape mode and 768x1024 in portrait. A skin not designed for portrait mode needs to be stretched and looks awful. The tablet won't do it automatically, so you'll need 2 skins or modify RR's general.ini for the skin when switching and then reloadRR. I'm almost positive the VNC-like programs won't do it cause they have enough going on just to preserve the scaling and aspect ratio of the original screen.

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You're right. I'd try to run my 7" at 1024x768 first, and see what happens. If I have to use the landscape mode, well, that's too wide...

I'd probably have to settle for a smaller tablet, or use just the screen and fab my own case for that...

Do you know of another tablet with a reflective screen, maybe a Toshiba or Panasonic? I've see a couple, either they're not slate, or they are too small...


Thanks again.