What's the point to this carputer thing anyway...?

**Wayne613** · 01-21-2010, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by justchat_1

There are still plenty of places where no driver distraction laws exist and yet manufacturers produce systems with various in motion lockouts. It comes down to their own asses on the line should some idiot watching a movie kill someone crossing the street. Even consumers could be liable for damages if they were accused of having a cell phone out while driving (aka distracted driving). So no this has nothing to do with "the nanny state" and everything to do with an out of control litigation system. Again, not the point of this thread.

offtopic continuation:
Name one where such devices are in constant use...seriously. Personal responsibility and judgment replaced by mandatory litigation on available features, functionality, and other general workings of what you do or how you do it, that has everything to do with a nanny state. If you view that as a political standpoint, so be it. I see it as a fact. And again, it was a counter-point simply with a tagged nameplate, not the whole point.

back on topic:
I just don't see how any one device in the near future could replace the broadrange you can get from an in car pc solution. Then again, even with it becoming a factory option, I can't see it catching on like wild-fire either. While I'm sure the offerings will be customized to a level that bars many of the frustrating variables that most of us have experienced in carpc software installation and functionality, there are still many variables and these will keep costs higher and keep some of the benefits confusing for many I'm sure. Which will still keep it from being as a replacement to the normal head-units and the like.

As many have stated, it's more about solid known features rather than the ability with effort to get flexibility of further features. People mainly just want to turn something on, click a button and have "that" work. Be it GPS, DVD, or music. Just like why most get a car and never really do much further to the vehicle other than fuzzy-dice and oil-changes. It's a very small percentage that does the extra effort to tune the vehicle, upgrade exhaust, etc..

**firstorbit84** · 01-21-2010, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by ThunderStick

Case and Point
Archos 5 IMT Install
This guy wanted a carpc for media playback, picked up an archos system and guess what he screamed bingo.
What people think they need is a media player with GPS and connectivity to the internet. What they may or may not want and will decide to do with out is everything else the carpc is currently doing.
Challenge is to change that ...

I've gotta admit that the Archos 5 is VERY nice and since that's all I'm really doing with my CarPC *at the moment* I really thought about going that way on my install... However, for almost $500 you'd still be left without many features that I was able to include in my Eee PC setup for around $450 (including the laptop itself, a new headunit, and Parrot handsfree bluetooth)! Click my build link in my sig for details on my setup....

With the Archos you'd still need a phone, and (in most states) some way to use it hands free... The reviews on cnet say that the GPS reception is not great, phones are tough to tether, and its sometimes finicky or clumsy to use... Plus you'd have to bring it with you or hide it when you leave the car, and you'd still be left with a docking station in a prominent location, which is a big tip-off to thieves.. On top of all that, my Asus's 7" screen has literally TWICE the real estate of the Archos...

Case in point: Yes, the archos is a step in the right direction for mobile media. But it definitely can't beat a similar priced CarPC in features, and IMO functionality.... The only thing it might be better in is ease of installation... However, its not really a phone, or a CarPC, so it shouldn't even enter this discussion...

**mayhembdm666** · 01-22-2010, 01:24 AM

I think we are now looping around on the basis of that a mobile phone is in the near future wise for being cost effective and need wise. If anyone can purchase a iphone outright without being locked to a service provider, Have no payment contract along with having the same price of internet access as a standard usb dongle with a normal isp.. Then i will move my vote to the phones. But otherwise the post is starting to lean towards the future and trying to grow the support of mobile phone development.

Cost wise for a the basic needs of the average driver who wants music/gps/phone/ and even just that.. the CarPC seems to still win with costs.

Another point being you can get an OLD pc and have it supply all the features you want. A 486 is almost the bare min you could get away with for the basics. Now if we go back in the age of phones to when the 486 was released... They had no chance... Sure the phone market is rocketing ahead at the moment. But until i can purchase an iphone for say $400 AUD with the storage capacity i need... I will stick with what i and my mates know to be a reliable,expandable,cheap,effective,quick,simple solution.

For me to go through and setup a phone setup, It could take a few days... For me to setup a car install.. It can take me a day. We stride in great steps with what we prefer. Hence phone lovers dont like pc installs n vise versa... So the argument now should be based around costs and currently available limits of hardware with expandability.

The hassles, bugs, work, performance, reliability, and all these other issues that are caused by the software and installation itself should not be counted in the thread as this is only scaled and limited to the person doing the initial setup and the selected items at the time.

**upspace** · 01-22-2010, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by firstorbit84

I've gotta admit that the Archos 5 is VERY nice and since that's all I'm really doing with my CarPC *at the moment* I really thought about going that way on my install... However, for almost $500 you'd still be left without many features that I was able to include in my Eee PC setup for around $450 (including the laptop itself, a new headunit, and Parrot handsfree bluetooth)! Click my build link in my sig for details on my setup....

Don't forget the unbeatable advantage that is has a battery and can be charged via 12 cigarette light adapter and only takes approx 7w under full load (that is smooth HD media playback)

Having an accu releases you from all the hassles of spikes, car battery dying, expensive startup/shutdown controllers, standby/suspend and instant-on scenarios etc.

The GPS btw is not that bad. It seems more to be an issue in the firmware (GPS data processing). With every firmware it gets better than worse again. Thats bad of course but time will stabilize here

**HiJackZX1** · 01-22-2010, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by mayhembdm666

I think we are now looping around on the basis of that a mobile phone is in the near future wise for being cost effective and need wise. If anyone can purchase a iphone outright without being locked to a service provider, Have no payment contract along with having the same price of internet access as a standard usb dongle with a normal isp.. Then i will move my vote to the phones. But otherwise the post is starting to lean towards the future and trying to grow the support of mobile phone development.

Cost wise for a the basic needs of the average driver who wants music/gps/phone/ and even just that.. the CarPC seems to still win with costs.

Another point being you can get an OLD pc and have it supply all the features you want. A 486 is almost the bare min you could get away with for the basics. Now if we go back in the age of phones to when the 486 was released... They had no chance... Sure the phone market is rocketing ahead at the moment. But until i can purchase an iphone for say $400 AUD with the storage capacity i need... I will stick with what i and my mates know to be a reliable,expandable,cheap,effective,quick,simple solution.

For me to go through and setup a phone setup, It could take a few days... For me to setup a car install.. It can take me a day. We stride in great steps with what we prefer. Hence phone lovers dont like pc installs n vise versa... So the argument now should be based around costs and currently available limits of hardware with expandability.

The hassles, bugs, work, performance, reliability, and all these other issues that are caused by the software and installation itself should not be counted in the thread as this is only scaled and limited to the person doing the initial setup and the selected items at the time.

I agree with you 100% on all points. As far as limits go, I really do not see any. Tech is now small and powerful enough to do more then what we need to in a Car PC environment. Even the ATOM 230 can be good enough and thats only a single core. I will say if you buy outdated tech with certain devices then your stuck. Example being is that I didn't want to have to many USB devices so 3 of them are serial devices. Now that I want a newer board (they only come with one, via a header) so now I'm stuck. I have to buy a serial to USB converter in order to bring up to standards. You can argue thats the benefit of having a Car PC. I had outdated equipment and now I am able to upgrade it by simply buying a new part. With a phone, it either old or new, no upgrading the device itself. You can also argue that usually when a phone comes out, it is stuck with certain accessories to use it, but when a next gen model comes out, they change the accessories so you have to buy all new ones.

**mayhembdm666** · 01-22-2010, 06:58 AM

One thing here i must also note...
I love the old type pin connectors (9/25) over usb any day.

Reliable & Solid... No drop outs due to power issues. Simple addressing.
Hence i do like that some of the newer Mini-ITX Boards are still supporting upto three serial and a parallel port. USB is handy.. But if you have a simple digital/analog device that does not require a complex speed then you cant look past the time proven methods.

And the best part i love about a pc over a phone....
When you have your whole ! setup complete and she is in a shmick clean install with all your music, software and db's setup.... GHOST!

Direct copy the HDD to another and keep her handy.... Have any dramas... 1 minute swap over and your back on the road.

**firstorbit84** · 01-22-2010, 07:51 AM

These are all valid points for the advantages of a PC:
- More upgradable system / compatibility
- Ability to use legacy devices if necessary / desired
- Ability to have a FULL backup of ALL software & settings

I'm pretty sure that phone backup utilities will NOT let you save EVERYTHING on the phone. For example, an iPhone backup will not store any apps, forcing you to re-download them from the app store, nor does it store any iPod music, videos, or photos. WTF is up with that?
Edit: Apparently you can backup the apps on your computer, but the point is that you must still manage apps an media yourself, as opposed to GHOSTING on a PC hard drive, which will save everything at once.

Back to the Archos comparison:

Originally Posted by upspace

Don't forget the unbeatable advantage that is has a battery and can be charged via 12 cigarette light adapter and only takes approx 7w under full load (that is smooth HD media playback)

Having an accu releases you from all the hassles of spikes, car battery dying, expensive startup/shutdown controllers, standby/suspend and instant-on scenarios etc.

Ummm... My Eee (and every other laptop) has a battery as well... and it also can be charged with a 12v cigarette lighter adapter, that only consumes 22w at full load (which isn't much considering that ONE of your headlight bulbs typically consumes up to 55-65 watts or more.

Also, I don't have to worry about the car battery dying since I've hardwired the cigarette adapter to a fused Ignition-ON +12v source, meaning that it ONLY charges when the key is in the ON position, and it has a better electrical connection than a cigarette lighter adapter... Plus my EXPENSIVE start-up/shut-down controller is a $3 momentary on switch that connects to the laptop's original power switch.

Finally, doesn't the Archos charge extra to download the app that allows FULL HD playback??

The GPS btw is not that bad. It seems more to be an issue in the firmware (GPS data processing). With every firmware it gets better than worse again. Thats bad of course but time will stabilize here

This just shows another problem with using niche-market proprietary platforms, as opposed to more widely-used ones with a HUGE open development community: The dependence on the platform manufacturer for fixes, updates, etc.

**mayhembdm666** · 01-22-2010, 08:17 AM

So... does one of the admins want to setup a nice little poll.... BUT!!! !! !
A admin who is not ruling on side already.. Someone who is in favor of both/either/neither.

Poll - Preferred Car System Install
1: Completely Mobile Phone Based
2: Mobile Based, Some 3rd Party Hardware (Orig/Cust)
3: PC/Mobile Based/Mixed Combination
4: PC Based, Requiring Mobile Phone for some features/access (iNet, GPS, Talk)
5: Completely PC Based

Then if possible, have a value input of total setup and we can have a average of cost over the 5 options?

Just a quick sketch idea?

**HiJackZX1** · 01-22-2010, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by mayhembdm666

So... does one of the admins want to setup a nice little poll.... BUT!!! !! !
A admin who is not ruling on side already.. Someone who is in favor of both/either/neither.

Poll - Preferred Car System Install
1: Completely Mobile Phone Based
2: Mobile Based, Some 3rd Party Hardware (Orig/Cust)
3: PC/Mobile Based/Mixed Combination
4: PC Based, Requiring Mobile Phone for some features/access (iNet, GPS, Talk)
5: Completely PC Based

Then if possible, have a value input of total setup and we can have a average of cost over the 5 options?

Just a quick sketch idea?

I would have to say thats bugbyte then. He seems to be on both sides of the fence. He has an impressive PC install, but I also know hes looking to get iPhone intergration into the car to maybe replace the PC?

**upspace** · 01-22-2010, 09:29 AM

Oooh Asus is a laptop. I was more thinking of those custome ITX motherboard/case solutions. But how do you mount that foldable laptop thing in your car withough looking ugly? Look at the Archos mount here Archos 5 IMT Install and how sleek it is. And 22w is still heavy compared to mobile devices with 2-8 watts capable of doing anything including stress-test HD playback. I agree that it is ugly from Archos to charge $20 for MPEG2 (DVD) and AC3 playback. But compared to the costs of buying a (legal) Windos OS copy it is still competitive.

I dont think that Android will be niche. Compared to Windows it is really open and there are already more GPS solutions (NDrive, Copilot, Igo Amigo, Sygic, Navigon soon ...) around than on Windows (only Garmin, Igo is from 2008)