Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789
Results 81 to 90 of 90
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: MS Surface Pro 2

  1. #81
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    Quote Originally Posted by bones5133 View Post
    Where and what kind of solenoid did you use to turn on and off?
    I found a few pictures of the Prototype Surface Pro Power on Button control solenoid and lever.

    This first photo is the paddle that sits against the S-Pro power button. Its slope matches the angle of the S-Pro side slope, it is narrower than the side height of the tablet and it is part of the "one-piece" aluminium lever that is shown in photo 2.

    Photo 1


    Photo 2:


    Photo 2 shows the back of the Mounting plate and the lever that is pushed by the solenoid. The solenoid has about 1/4" of travel and the lever length is governed by the amount of solenoid travel and the force the solenoid can generate.

    The Lever pivots right at the mounting plate slot where the lever passes through, the long arm gives very good mechanical leverage and the 1/4" solenoid travel translates to about 1/8" travel of the paddle.

    The SP2 button is a micro switch, it's quite firm to press and has a very small amount of movement before it clicks.

    The Paddle is spaced a tiny amount away from the button to allow the solenoid to start moving the paddle before it contacts the button.

    The biggest problem I had was devising a hinge of some kind to reliability hold and pivot the lever, in a moment of inspiration (or was that desperation) I picked up a piece of Plastic corner moulding and realised it would be perfect, this stuff is universal and sold in almost every big hardware. It's the white strip (cut from corner moulding plastic) shown in photo 2.

    It is the PERFECT material for the hinge for a few reasons:

    1: It positively locks the lever in position, there is absolutely ZERO movement forward, back, left or right and virtually none vertically.

    2: It offers almost no resistance to the lever at the pivot point.

    3: It's easy to adjust the exact position with the two small bolt holding the rear of the strip and the bolt and washer holding the strip to the base plate.

    4: It allows you to bend the lever and the pivot angle for exact and positive actuation of the S-Pro power button.

    5: This stuff is tough and will last longer that the tablet.


    The Solenoid:

    The one I had lying around is a 24v unit and is known as a push solenoid as opposed to a pull solenoid. The fact that it even has enough force at 12v is pretty amazing. It is around 1" long and 3/4" square but a smaller unit designed for 6v and powered by 12v should easily work.

    Solenoid quick info:

    A solenoid designed for 100% duty cycle @ 6V should have a table of Duty cycle V voltage and force.

    EDIT: Duty cycle is the percentage of ON time (solenoid powered) compared to off time.

    A typical 6v open frame solenoid will have around 25% duty cycle @ 12v. A solenoid used for S-Pro button will have virtually no Duty cycle (less than 1%) as it is a single momentary power cycle.

    The reason you would use a 6V unit at 12v is for the big increase in applied force. The term applied force is relative in that its virtually imposable for a small solenoid to hurt the S-PRO button in any way, even if the solenoid was a "miracle power device", the plastic hinge will flex along with the lever if any real force is applied and there is a limited amount of travel available from the solenoid in any case, and once stalled there is little force available.

    This is one such solenoid that I found:
    http://au.element14.com/multicomp/mc...-6v/dp/2008796

    The control circuit is so simple and completely "stand alone" - NO PC or Micro control - only has a few components. Best of all, NO physical connection or mods to the tablet and nothing to remove or look out for when removing the tablet.

    EDIT Taken from POST 63.

    Simple circuit to control the Surface Pro power button via a solenoid:

    Ground, 12v Accessory from the Vehicle and +5v from the USB connection of the SP2.

    Turn on the Vehicle and this circuit sends a short 12v pulse to the Solenoid which presses the SP2 Power button, as soon as +5v USB appears from the SP2 (instantaneously at SP2 power on) it inhibits the solenoid from being pulsed again with vehicle starting or IGN off/on cycles until the SP2 drops its 5v USB rail when it powers down.





    EDIT: FYI I have ordered one of the 6V solenoids. I should be able to lay it on its side and cut the leaver down to a very small size. I'll post results for this unit, especially as the specs are known. For anyone looking to use an SP2/3 in this manner but with limited room, the results may show that an even smaller unit could be used.
    Last edited by Mickz; 01-05-2015 at 08:55 PM.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  2. #82
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Janesville, Wisconisn
    Posts
    27
    Mickz

    Great Pics of the Selenoid. I like the set up and is fairly simple set up. Thanks for the diagram. That is awsome how you use the USB power to make sure the selenoid doen't engage again.

    I am having some trouble getting the info I need from the sales person from Vintage Air about the rotary switches for the HVAC system. I am going to try and get tech support next week to see if I can get anywhere there. so Far they have told me the switches ares:

    The Gen IV unit I am looking at is a "digital signal with the ECU and has variable speed motor with 35 speeds? I will update you next week.

    Hopefully I can get some of my build started in the next couple weeks.

    Thanks

  3. #83
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    Sounds like it should be an easy interface in any case. Hopefully I'll have the 6v Solenoid in the next week, I'm very sure that the actuator leaver can be drastically reduced in size and simplicity even more with this more powerful solenoid.

    Look forward to seeing how your project progresses. BTW I'll take a few photos of the slide when I take it out to fit the new Solenoid.

    Mike.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  4. #84
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    FYI/quick update: The 6 volt Solenoid ordered in previous link arrived and I just had a chance to test it.

    I haven't tested it on the SP2 as yet, however this solenoid is actually quite small and appears to generate enough force to directly press the Power button. In my case it could be mounted directly below the paddle that currently pushes the SP2 button, virtually eliminating 90% of the leaver shown in post #81 photo 2. I'll post a photo and results when I remove the backing plate from the vehicle.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  5. #85
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    Tested on the S-Pro and yes it can trigger the button directly, but it's too unreliable due to the fact that it requires a lot more force that I remembered to press the dam button. In the end, the best result was obtained by keeping the same layout and lever length as before, however a slight change is needed to the circuit because of the increased current demand of this smaller solenoid, and because of the increased force available with this unit I'm swapping the older one out.

    At least now there is a source for the same solenoid as I'm using for anyone who wants to automate power on without trying to pull the tablet apart.

    As silly as this sounds, In some cases it may be better to have a small push button and tiny lever to actuate the Power button for Power ON. Suspend, sleep or shutdown are still automated via the FE. You know, hop in the car, press the button and by the time you have the key in the ignition and the vehicle started, the FE will be up and running.

    EDIT Added photo: Similar length to the old unit but almost half the depth and width.



    FYI Solenoid link:
    http://au.element14.com/multicomp/mc...-6v/dp/2008796
    Last edited by Mickz; 01-07-2015 at 07:41 PM.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  6. #86
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    Added picture of new solenoid to last post.

    Circuit for new higher power solenoid, the STP80PF55, P-channel MOSFET- 80 A @ 55 V is available almost everywhere for around $3.90.

    See post #81 for basic description. As always, happy to answer any questions about this.

    Last edited by Mickz; 01-07-2015 at 07:54 PM.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  7. #87
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    Had a chance to grab a few photos of the FE in portrait mode and before I go into this, I should define what my Front End is.

    A. This FE is to be used as a Vehicle sound entertainment and Vehicle interface system.

    B. The FE is made to be used by the "Driver of the vehicle Whilst driving the vehicle" - which is the reason that I'm in the vehicle 99% of the time - to drive it!

    This seems to be a novel idea, I know it's hard to believe, but a few people mainly use a Vehicle when they drive it - not as an Video entertainment, internet and computer gaming lounge away from home.

    In order to comply with our Road transport LAWS - Whilst driving: No swiping or touching the screen, no silly finger gestures (screen or fellow drivers) no Video / Movies (main screen), rev cam excepted as per the relevant state and Gov laws. ALL Sub menus and Screens that are NOT classed as a driver AID are not Viewable/selectable to the driver when the vehicle is considered to be under Driver control. NOTE: Exceptions are Music and Radio which are allowed to be visible - but may soon have some limitations placed on them.

    I followed these rules because: Not doing so has now been conclusively proven to be dangerous, distracting and a growing cause of road accidents. Laws are getting tighter. A recent Electronics and Vehicle Expo showed GPS maps being zoomed in and out by squeeze gestures and music/ Radio / Vehicle controls operated via complex touch screen layouts, and it has already been in the main news feeds. Road transport authorities and Road safety departments are already calling for a review of Safety laws governing the trend in current and new motor vehicles display systems. Don't vehicle manufactures realise that Media and News outlets will jump on this and take it out of context?

    To this end - the FE is completely controlled by my version of an iDrive Panel between the front seats (soon to be redesigned,) with the correct application of this system, I hardly take my eyes off the road to do anything - No reaching forward past the steering wheel or leaning forward to use a touch screen. Added to this are the Steering wheel controls - again - no need to look at them or the screen to use them.

    Everything on Screen should require one quick glance while driving - Simple unchanging layout. But simple belies the complexity and useability that becomes available to the user "WHEN NOT IN DRIVING MODE".

    Note - this is a Work in Progress.

    Basic Layout:


    How the Home Menu maps to the iDrive - Basic layout is the same as the screen.


    This is the old (existing panel) soon to be made to look a lot nicer.


    Note: If FM-DAB is playing and FM-DAB is "on screen" then Pressing the iDrive DAB-FM button will close the Radio, just as pressing it will start the Radio if it's turned off, same for the Music Button.

    Pressing the iDrive Climate Control button will toggle between Home and Climate.
    Pressing the iDrive GPS button while GPS is showing will switch between GPS MAP views.
    Pressing iDrive Home toggles between Phone and Home.

    A few notes on the Home screen:

    Battery/Chg indicator:

    When the FE is running on a tablet, the bar will indicate the % of battery charge and will change colour for 4 different states.

    No colour = No internal battery found.
    Red = Running on Battery.
    Blue = Not charging BUT running on Vehicle Power.
    Green = Charging (running on Vehicle power).


    The Volume Indicator.

    Only shown on the Home screen and primarily there as a diagnostic aid in the event that I have no sound. If I have sound then I don't need a display on every screen as my ears can indicate volume level - who'd of thought!

    More Info: The volume in this setup is controlled by a "Physical control" - An Optical rotary encoder.

    1. The Volume is not primarily controlled by the FE.

    2. The Optical encoder is connected to the Vehicle interface Micro.

    3. The interface Micro reads the encoder and controls the volume via the DSP unit in the trunk.

    4. Control is independent of the FE or even the Tablet actually running.

    5. The current position of the "Digital Volume control IC" is sent to the FE and is indicated on the Home screen volume slider in real time.

    6. Pushing the Volume control knob mutes the Amplifier, the FE will not attempt to un-mute the AMP under this condition. The FE indicates the Mute state.

    7. Pushing the Volume knob again un-mutes the amplifier.

    8. Both Physical Mute and Volume are totally independent of the FE/Tablet - although the FE will always try to Un-Mute the system unless it's overridden as in Item 6 above.

    9. Steering wheel Vol+/Vol- adjusts the volume via the interface Micro.

    10. Volume is adjusted by the FE (via the interface Micro) when "Speed sense" Auto volume is enabled.

    11. Amplifier is automatically Muted by the FE on Suspend and un-muted on Resume.

    12. Amplifier instantly muted by the Interface Micro under any interruption to power (vehicle cranking ETC) - Automatically un-muted by FE on resolution of power glitch.

    13. With this system the Digital IC and Volume NEVER get out of SYNC.

    Steering Wheel button press.

    Mode Button:

    Scrolls through each of the main FE "running" items.

    HVAC, GPS, DAB, Music, Phone, Vehicle Status Display and again, skips any item not enabled or running.
    Announces each Item as it's displayed - No need to look at the screen.

    Volume UP/DN: - volume

    CH UP/DN:

    Changes Music track or DAB station up/down.
    CH/UP Selects next Random song if Music is playing and set to Random mode.

    Rotary Encoder actions when the following screens are in View:

    Music - Scrolls through Song List or Artist - Press Selects

    Radio - Scrolls through entire Radio station List - Press selects.

    GPS - Zooms Map in or out - Brilliant, fast and accurate.

    Phone - Bring up Phone book and announces Name as it scrolls - Press to Dial.

    If Phone is ringing - depends on setup - Press of encoder will Answer the Phone if various Auto answer options are off.

    NOTE: If Phone rings - All other sound is muted and the Phone module is instantly switched to Screen. If caller is in Phone Book, Caller name announced and Phone automatically answered (if enabled) .

    Auto Hang-up - where applicable - or Press Encoder to Hang up.

    A few of the Many Screens:

    ---
    -
    ---
    -
    ---
    -
    ---
    Last edited by Mickz; 01-27-2015 at 11:41 PM.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  8. #88
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    4
    Excellent job on the design and installation of your Surface into a classic car! I praise your technical abilities and (or) team that worked with you on this project. I have a question regarding your USB hub. I have tried the coolgear.com/usbgear.com 12 volt industrial 4 port USB hub (installed in police cars, semis, RVs, etc) but it is not compatible with my surf pro 3. I would rather not install an inverter strip, but instead have 1 USB hub hard wired with intent to: power, charge and connect all my devices. Please let me know if you have any Windows 8.1 hub recommendations. Thanks

  9. #89
    FLAC Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,001
    Thanks, no team (I wish) I do everything myself.

    As far as USB Hubs go, every USB 2 and 3 HUB that I have tried has worked with the Surface PRO2. One USB3 hub only worked as USB2 until I updated the firmware in the HUB. Most 12v powered HUBs with any power/charging ability will have an inverter inside. Most of mine are at least 5 years old now and not available anymore, all needed an external 12v to 5v supply if they are to be powered. There should be nothing special about the SP3 except that like the SP2, it is USB3, I guess some older nonstandard USB2/3 HUBS may not work?

    Hopefully someone using a SP3 can give some help, best of luck with the project, mine is still working perfectly, not a single problem with SP2, trunk controller or the 13 USB devices.
    Surface Pro 2 128GB portrait mode, Win8.1, Reverse camera, Dual 10HZ GPS RX's for Speed Display & Sat Nav, FM-DAB & Phone Modules, iDrive interface. T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, microcode and FE. Previous Car-PC Project

  10. #90
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    4

    HUB for Car Network

    That's a huge project to tackle by yourself! Are you an electrical engineer or work for an integration company? Will the 5V - 12V power supply connect right to my battery or accessory position for easy install inside my dash once I find a compatible hub? Did you design the interface program which allows you to control audio, hvac, controllers and other features? Have you tried to move forward with your project as a business owner, installation company or consultant? I have a contact that assisted with the release of the SP3 and want to approach Microsoft through him as a consultant/researcher trying to learn how they will compete with Tesla, the Apple Car, trending, sustainability, Windows Embedded Automotive, etc. Let me know if I can email you instead. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickz View Post
    Thanks, no team (I wish) I do everything myself.

    As far as USB Hubs go, every USB 2 and 3 HUB that I have tried has worked with the Surface PRO2. One USB3 hub only worked as USB2 until I updated the firmware in the HUB. Most 12v powered HUBs with any power/charging ability will have an inverter inside. Most of mine are at least 5 years old now and not available anymore, all needed an external 12v to 5v supply if they are to be powered. There should be nothing special about the SP3 except that like the SP2, it is USB3, I guess some older nonstandard USB2/3 HUBS may not work?

    Hopefully someone using a SP3 can give some help, best of luck with the project, mine is still working perfectly, not a single problem with SP2, trunk controller or the 13 USB devices.

Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789

Similar Threads

  1. may try w surface pro?
    By buckemdwn in forum Road Runner
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-21-2013, 05:03 PM
  2. Microsoft Surface Tablets
    By bblitz in forum Laptops, Netbooks, Tablets, UMPCs, etc.
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-05-2012, 08:19 AM
  3. Surface Acoustic Wave SAW
    By ssteger in forum VaultWiki
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-19-2009, 01:39 PM
  4. PSU Surface Placement Question.
    By HiJackZX1 in forum Power Supplies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-27-2008, 11:24 AM
  5. All about Microsoft Surface
    By add1 in forum General Hardware Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-11-2007, 08:34 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •