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Thread: Little sreen affordability

  1. #11
    Variable Bitrate hailrazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankist View Post
    do you guys really think the situation is as it should be?
    Supply and demand.

    Who cares how the consumer feels about it.

    The price on an item will ALWAYS be as high as the market can bear.
    Public opinion matters not.

    This discussion is pointless really. The price will go down when
    A. More manufacturers make said item.
    B. Consumers stop buying said item driving the price down so that sales pick up.
    C Cheaper technology is introduced into the market.

    Funny how the buyer always says the price is to high but the seller always says they are selling it to cheap.

    Depends on what side of the fence you sit huh?

  2. #12
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    just for the record I do not and never have sold screens of any kind... I say the price is fair for the quality and huge improvement over nontransflective. And there are various grades of transfective screens, some for $500. They arent as good as the ones offered here, but they are better than the cheap non-sunlight models.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
    if you honestly think they just glue a film to the screen, you need to read up on how transflective upgrades work before we continue...
    i'm not saying you selling screens.
    question is are you saying by this that the price is justified?

    EDIT:
    as far the pointlesness of the discussion, yeah, i guess it is totaly pointless...

  4. #14
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    I think it's justified.
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  5. #15
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankist View Post
    i'm not saying you selling screens.
    question is are you saying by this that the price is justified?

    EDIT:
    as far the pointlesness of the discussion, yeah, i guess it is totaly pointless...
    yes. Between the volume, the labour involved, and the tech behind it, the costs are definately justified. This is the aircraft technology that used to cost $5k to $10k for a screen not too long ago.

    If you want the best, be willing to pay.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankist View Post
    still

    https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?...11547#specsTab
    top model garmin nuvi 5000 sunlight readable touchscreen 5.2" 800 x 480 pixels - enough to do VGA. with MSRP of 500$ they also need to squeeze in bunch of other hardware + the software development is not free. that 500 hundred also includes the price of braggin rights, i think we all know that margins are much higher on top units which also makes them are niche product as well (i don't know many people who today buy top model GPS's at premium). strip all the parts not needed for our application leave the panel, signal converter, touchscreen) and you easy fall into less then 300 for perfectly sun readable 5.2" touch screen.

    better yet - no name 7" GPS unit . couldn't find the exact resolution but it has to be sufficient to run that win-mobile os (probably) a touchscreen and it has to be sunlight readable.
    here we basically strip the premium one would pay for garmin's name. (although there is a saving on not having proprietary software)
    Those aren't VGA screens. And they aren't 7". You are not comparing the same thing. That may be *enough* pixels to display VGA resolution, but it isn't the same technology. It is [surprise] a CHEAPER technology that is suitable for mass producing at a lower price.

    I tell you what - buy one of those 7" NTSC screens that sports 800 X 600 and run your PC's S-Video output into it. You'll save money and have a sunlight readable blurry screen.

    how on earth the sunlight readability option can be almost twice more then the device itself? even if it is a custom upgrade which is more expencive since it is outside of normal manufacturing process - 450$ to bond a film onto the screen? it just doesn't add up for me.

    i understand that if one wants sunlight readable vga screen for his car it is that or nothing , but somehow i just can't shake the feeling that the market situation is grossly exploited.
    Okay, nobody is saying these screens are inexpensive. And nobody is saying that Xenarc and Lilliput aren't charging as much as they possibly can in the face of little competition in the marketplace.

    We're just saying that what you see in the mass market for GPS units is not the same screen you put in your car. Say that Garmin sells 30 million units a year worldwide while Xenarc sells 3 million (I have no idea what either one sells, but the ratio looks likely to me). Garmin produces 10 times more units of a cheaper technology. Of course they can get the price down substantially.

    The VGA screen is different. Demand is much, much lower. And that is why it is more expensive.

    A new technology such as OLED will eventually come along and replace in car screens. When it does, the existing screens will look like dog doo-doo and they'll be forced to lower the price.

    For me, I paid $500 for my first screen 6 years ago. Then I paid $400 for a better screen a year later. The price is still in that range, which says to me that if you factor in inflation, it's a slightly cheaper screen than I was paying for. I'm not happy about it, but I also can't do anything about it.
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  7. #17
    Constant Bitrate STI_FFY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
    Huge nit count != sunlight readable.
    Who are you, Marriam or Webster?

    "Sunlight readable" is a subjective term that defines neither high brightness nor transreflective technology. I would argue that my 1000 nit display is indeed quite readable in direct sunlight - at least as direct as it can get in my car. I have yet to see a situation where it is not so, provided the writing on the screen is the correct-way-round.

    And who says $400 high bright displays are cheap? They may not be the cost equal of $600 TR displays, but you're just being silly to spend that much.

    There are much larger displays in which just getting the panel to have no dead or hot pixels justifies the cost. These panels don't have such problems, and given the **** poor firmware in the controllers on these $300 and $400 Lillis and Xenarcs, where's all that money going?
    SeeYa! -Jim-

  8. #18
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STI_FFY View Post
    Who are you, Marriam or Webster?

    "Sunlight readable" is a subjective term that defines neither high brightness nor transreflective technology. I would argue that my 1000 nit display is indeed quite readable in direct sunlight - at least as direct as it can get in my car. I have yet to see a situation where it is not so, provided the writing on the screen is the correct-way-round.

    And who says $400 high bright displays are cheap? They may not be the cost equal of $600 TR displays, but you're just being silly to spend that much.

    There are much larger displays in which just getting the panel to have no dead or hot pixels justifies the cost. These panels don't have such problems, and given the **** poor firmware in the controllers on these $300 and $400 Lillis and Xenarcs, where's all that money going?
    Marriam...

    Just go find a true transflective screen and stare at it. You will be amazed so much that your high brightness screen will look (to quote BB) dog doo-doo. There is NO comparison. Completely different technologies at work. Overpowering the sun versus harnessing the sun. I have seen the high brightness screens, I have seen the motorcity translective, I have seen the mp3car transflective, and I have and own an el cheapo screen. All look very different between colour settings, glare, and readability. You can gawk at the price all day long, but you get what you pay for. I am saving for an mp3car transflective. 1) it looks the best and 2) it supports the very forums we are on
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    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
    15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
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  9. #19
    Constant Bitrate STI_FFY's Avatar
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    2K1, I think you must have misread the OPs post...

    His point was that screen prices for small displays are still disproportionally high after all these years. He is right.

    IIRC Lilliput (the only game in town) was around $280 when I bought my first back in 2004. They are now ~$230. The low brightness Xenarc is $350. The firmware in these things is still buggy and/or feature poor, they still use analog input (long runs are noisy), they don't support EDID, yet they cost about the same as they did back in 2004 and that sucks.

    Today you can get a 23" widescreen for much less than you could get a 15" 4:3 back in 2004. They use DVI or HDMI rather than analog input, you don't need drivers, and the text is never backwards when they power up.

    Now why is it that you think TR technology at $750 justifies any of the above?

    You may indeed be right that anyone who has the money to afford it will just have to have one once they see it - but they'll still need to futz with their timings to get 800X480 - assuming the thing will even support it. Long analog runs from the trunk to the dash (for example) will still have noise on the video making funny lines and things in the display, and if you've had TR applied to a Xenarc you may still have to power cycle it occasionally to correct its inexplicably having reversed the display when you started your car this time.

    I don't think it unreasonable to expect for your $300 that the vendors should fix their buggy firmware, support current interfaces, and display their native rez without the need to tweak timings. When that all works, we can then concern ourselves with whether or not high brightness and/or labor-intensive TR conversion is worth even more money.
    SeeYa! -Jim-

  10. #20
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    i read the post explaining the upgrade to transflective tech in hopes to find justification of the high price. i understand they essentially relaminating the LCD to include several needed layers... still, i don't see 450$ (unless it includes units destroyed during failed attempts).
    i cannot justify what seems to me as overpriced item with "well, that's the only option" reasoning. i guess that means that i'm left without screen.

    thank you for your responses.

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