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Thread: Little sreen affordability

  1. #1
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    Little sreen affordability

    hi all,

    i shelved my project couple years ago due to no using car much and other hobbies that grabbed my attention. now i'm looking back to get in (as i will be driving more) and looking at things again. I just can't not to notice that while tremendous progress (as always) is happening with copm hardware, the little automotive touch screens are essentially exactly at the same place where they were 3 years ago. how come such little progress in that area? and what is more important how come the price did not go down one bit and actually seems to go up? over 700 for sun readable screen, how is this justifiable? i understand it is quite a niche market but still...


    or is there some substantial breakthrough in the screen tech that i failed to notice?

  2. #2
    Constant Bitrate STI_FFY's Avatar
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    It sucks, doesn't it?

    And really good, bright LCD displays (virtually sunlight readable) like the Xenarc 702TSV have brain-dead firmware - like the inability to tell it "please never reverse the image". As a result, 10 percent of the time when your car computer comes out of hibernation, centrafuse (or whatever you are using as a front end) is unreadable because

    !sdrawkcab ekil ,lla si yalpsid eritne ehT

    You have to power the display off/on to fix it.

    By now there should be a $150 7" touchscreen with 1000 nits, smart (fully configurable) firmware, and a DVI with EDID (or HDMI) input. Instead you pay over $400 in the case of the aforementioned, and it works OK if you can get your chipset to allow you to modify timings and the display happens not to choose bizaarro mode when it powers up.
    SeeYa! -Jim-

  3. #3
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    Huge nit count != sunlight readable.

    The first tries to outshine the sun. Interesting but fail most of the time. The second uses the sun to reflect. That's why there is a huge price difference, and there is really no comparison between them when seen in person.

    And you can now get an ebay screen for $150 instead of $200-$230 that will work just as well as the other models.

    But really... The screen is the one main piece of hardware for the CarPC that you will see and interact with every day and every second the CarPC is even operational. Why would you spend all the money to get an awesome CarPC, and then skimp on the screen?
    Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
    1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
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    Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

  4. #4
    Variable Bitrate hailrazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster View Post

    But really... The screen is the one main piece of hardware for the CarPC that you will see and interact with every day and every second the CarPC is even operational. Why would you spend all the money to get an awesome CarPC, and then skimp on the screen?
    Testify brother !!!! LOL

    Thats why I spent $600 on my 10.4" for my Yukon and now $675 for my Optically Bonded , transflective , antiglare 7" for my Sorento.

    I'm not spending a lot of money on a car PC to not be able to see it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
    That's why there is a huge price difference,
    sorry, but that does not explain a lot. you just stated the obvious price difference between the 2 tech's. where is this price difference coming from? that trans-flective tech can not be that much more expensive (we talking times from 200 to 700). GPS units are quite readable during the day, and there are some with quite a screen sizes that are dirt cheep. it is possible.

    so, the quesion is why that daylight readable screen sold here is 700$ today when it was 700 3 years ago? or is it simply because somebody takes advantage of the fact there is no alternative?

  6. #6
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankist View Post
    sorry, but that does not explain a lot. you just stated the obvious price difference between the 2 tech's. where is this price difference coming from? that trans-flective tech can not be that much more expensive (we talking times from 200 to 700). GPS units are quite readable during the day, and there are some with quite a screen sizes that are dirt cheep. it is possible.

    so, the quesion is why that daylight readable screen sold here is 700$ today when it was 700 3 years ago? or is it simply because somebody takes advantage of the fact there is no alternative?
    GPS units are not VGA. You can probably get those screens for pretty cheap since they are put in millions of units. Taking an already existing VGA touchscreen and then shipping it back and forth to be hand bonded is not exactly volume discount friendly.

    Price difference for a 1000nit screen is a) a beefier backlight circuit (probably less than a dollar in parts) and b) 2 CCFL tubes that have a higher output (again probably less than a dollar difference each). The manufacturing process doesnt need to change at all, the only difference is the parts list.

    Price difference in a real transflective VGA monitor with a touchscreen is mostly in labour. A machine will solder a part regardless of what it is at the same cost essentially. The gooping and vacuuming of an LCD's internals in a high level clean room by engineers costs a tad more than the electric bill.

    And again the volume sold is a big factor. Even OEM car makers and OEM headunit makers are using less than VGA LCDs. Since everyone uses that, it is cheap. When something mainstream comes out that requires a 7" or 8" transflective VGA monitor with touchpanel, the prices will drop drastically. But really 7/8 inches is too big for anything mobile, and too small for anything in the laptop world (that would pay for the difference. A $300 netbook doesnt need a $300 screen). So it is restricted really to trivial things like picture frames and then us. And probably for every 1 that buys a transflective, 200 or more buy the el cheapo model.
    Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
    1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
    15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
    Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankist View Post
    [snip]...how is this justifiable? i understand it is quite a niche market but still...
    Apparently you don't understand that. The VGA small touchscreen with sunlight readability market is a niche market. The volumes are low. There is little competition. The price doesn't go down. Not hard to understand.

    And the car PC market is only a sliver of the small touchscreen market. The call for a sunlight readable display that is VGA is even smaller. Engineering a screen that does all of that costs money and the return to the manufacturer is probably negative. Better to sell VGA screens to supermarket checkout point of sale vendors who don't need and wouldn't pay for a sunlight readable monitor.

    There have been some tech advances you may not have noticed, though. MIMO is now selling screens that are USB only. That is a real change, although I haven't seen anyone put one in their car yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocruzer View Post
    I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
    Want to:
    -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
    -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

  8. #8
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    Also in 3 years the LED versions have come out instead of the CCFL's
    Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
    1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
    15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
    Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

  9. #9
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    still

    https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?...11547#specsTab
    top model garmin nuvi 5000 sunlight readable touchscreen 5.2" 800 x 480 pixels - enough to do VGA. with MSRP of 500$ they also need to squeeze in bunch of other hardware + the software development is not free. that 500 hundred also includes the price of braggin rights, i think we all know that margins are much higher on top units which also makes them are niche product as well (i don't know many people who today buy top model GPS's at premium). strip all the parts not needed for our application leave the panel, signal converter, touchscreen) and you easy fall into less then 300 for perfectly sun readable 5.2" touch screen.

    better yet - no name 7" GPS unit . couldn't find the exact resolution but it has to be sufficient to run that win-mobile os (probably) a touchscreen and it has to be sunlight readable.
    here we basically strip the premium one would pay for garmin's name. (although there is a saving on not having proprietary software)

    and now back to car screens.
    the ordinary Lili screen is 250$ complete with all the electronics, packaging, development costs. how on earth the sunlight readability option can be almost twice more then the device itself? even if it is a custom upgrade which is more expencive since it is outside of normal manufacturing process - 450$ to bond a film onto the screen? it just doesn't add up for me.



    i understand that if one wants sunlight readable vga screen for his car it is that or nothing , but somehow i just can't shake the feeling that the market situation is grossly exploited.

    i understand you happy with your screens but do you guys really think the situation is as it should be?

  10. #10
    Fusion Brain Creator 2k1Toaster's Avatar
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    if you honestly think they just glue a film to the screen, you need to read up on how transflective upgrades work before we continue...
    Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
    1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
    15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
    Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

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