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Thread: Let's see how a $600 transflective LCD stacks up against a $200 BlackBerry PlayBook..

  1. #41
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    You guys are way too close minded with this whole tablet thing. I shake my head everytime I see posts like these. It's like trying to explain a new way of doing something to people who already have their minds made up...no dice. Most of the issue you guys are describing are software-related and have nothing to do with the tablet form factor. If there were proper apps (ie. done in the right scale with big *** buttons) that have the same feature set as the current windows car pc programs then what difference does it make? In terms of usb support, you guys know that Android for example supports a good chunk of usb devices out the box right? I have an Android tablet and with simply buying an OTG cable I'm able to hooking up a usb hub and connect a keyboard, mouse, hdd, game pad controllers etc. When windows 8 comes out this will provide a viable alternative to handle any residual issues (vs using iOS or Android).

    There is work being put in on these forums to get proper apps going which is the real issue. Once that is solved I just can't see the reasoning that tablets wouldn't fulfil the needs for most members on this community other than just being determined to put a comupter in your car as a hobby.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    You guys are way too close minded with this whole tablet thing. I shake my head everytime I see posts like these. It's like trying to explain a new way of doing something to people who already have their minds made up...no dice. Most of the issue you guys are describing are software-related and have nothing to do with the tablet form factor. If there were proper apps (ie. done in the right scale with big *** buttons) that have the same feature set as the current windows car pc programs then what difference does it make? In terms of usb support, you guys know that Android for example supports a good chunk of usb devices out the box right? I have an Android tablet and with simply buying an OTG cable I'm able to hooking up a usb hub and connect a keyboard, mouse, hdd, game pad controllers etc. When windows 8 comes out this will provide a viable alternative to handle any residual issues (vs using iOS or Android).

    There is work being put in on these forums to get proper apps going which is the real issue. Once that is solved I just can't see the reasoning that tablets wouldn't fulfil the needs for most members on this community other than just being determined to put a comupter in your car as a hobby.
    Perhaps you should do some searching on these forums. There are quite a few topics covering the many difficulties people have had with tablets vs carpcs, and the other way around. The two key factors are: lack of carpc style software, and lack of hardware compatibility. For software, this has been discussed to DEATH on these forums. Search for it. Hardware? Try to plug in a BU353, or a Fusion Brain, or a USB to serial converter to control a HD radio, or a Phidgets, or a Boomzbox, or an obd2 scantool, should I go on? Who actually uses a keyboard or mouse in the car? So yes, software has a LOT to do with the tablet form factor when you're talking about Android tablets.

    So say you spend the extra $300 to get yourself an X86 tablet (Or some miracle happens and someone actually writes some good software and drivers for Android tablets), thus solving both the hardware and software issues. Without doing EXTENSIVE fiberglassing and modifications to the vehicle itself, there was no way to make it look anything but a cheap add-on. (see: theft-bait). Plus you still have to run the wires just like a carpc, except with a tablet they're all there for you to see no matter how nicely you tuck them away. I've done it, it's not good, and not a single one of the tablet installs I've seen either on these forums, or on the internet, look even half decent, unless they fully fiberglassed it in... in which case, for that effort just install a carpc.


    So yes, you can put a tablet in your car, and I'll laugh with it gets stolen, or while you're beating your head against the wall waiting for software. I'll stick with the OEM style look of a full on carpc. It's just a shame the screens aren't quite up to par yet.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    You guys are way too close minded with this whole tablet thing. I shake my head everytime I see posts like these. It's like trying to explain a new way of doing something to people who already have their minds made up...no dice. Most of the issue you guys are describing are software-related and have nothing to do with the tablet form factor. If there were proper apps (ie. done in the right scale with big *** buttons) that have the same feature set as the current windows car pc programs then what difference does it make? In terms of usb support, you guys know that Android for example supports a good chunk of usb devices out the box right? I have an Android tablet and with simply buying an OTG cable I'm able to hooking up a usb hub and connect a keyboard, mouse, hdd, game pad controllers etc. When windows 8 comes out this will provide a viable alternative to handle any residual issues (vs using iOS or Android).

    There is work being put in on these forums to get proper apps going which is the real issue. Once that is solved I just can't see the reasoning that tablets wouldn't fulfil the needs for most members on this community other than just being determined to put a comupter in your car as a hobby.
    I gave examples how the hardware is the much bigger problem actually. Else I can only shake my head at your post, how you ignore facts and seem to be dreaming about your next Apple iPad without getting whats happening in reality or whatever...

  4. #44
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    mal nailed the fundamental issues. The form factor of tablets make doing a nice job an exercise of the skilled fiberglasser. If you don't care how it looks, there's still the driver issue (depending on the OS you use) and software issue. The appeal of the tablet comes from the smaller footprint and better touchscreen than we currently use today.

    NOTE: that while mal is correct about the tablet issues, I should admit that I am currently using a tablet in my vehicle and plan on doing so for the unforeseen future. I get around the software issues by writing my own software. But the entire setup looks like crap.
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  5. #45
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    Well, I obviously hit some nerves. I'm well versed as to what's going on in the forums... I mean I'm pretty much on here everyday. What I find is that people seem to to be trying to fit their same hardware from say their win pc into a tablet instead if finding reasonable alternatives. I tend to look at these issues from a high level from a perspective of "most" users ie 80/20. For example, for most people why would you need to worry about BU353 on tablet when most tablets have a build GPS chip? Even if you want an external GPS then there are bluetooth options also. HD radio can be easily replaced with internet radio (eg I use TuneIn app for my radio needs). May not work for some because of data etc for many people it's a replacement. There are many bluetooth obd2 options available on both Android and iOS. In terms of fitting a 7" tablet vs say a lilli or zenarc how is it that much different? I mean if you are talking about an iPad then I can see the argument but a 7" tablet presents the same issues as any car pc touchscreen. I for one am not an iPad fanboy as I think the fact that Android has many more hardware options is a great advantge for this use.
    Last edited by prodigalsun; 04-09-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    Well, I obviously hit some nerves. I'm well versed as to what's going on in the forums... I mean I'm pretty much on here everyday. What I find is that people seem to to be trying to fit their same hardware from say their win pc into a tablet instead if finding reasonable alternatives. I tend to look at these issues from a high level from a perspective of "most" users ie 80/20.
    I'll break this down for you because I'm bored... but I'll tell you that if you refute any of these points, I'll point you to mp3car's search page, since that's where I found this information, and verified my own experiences.
    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    For example, for most people why would you need to worry about BU353 on tablet when most tablets have a build GPS chip? Even if you want an external GPS then there are bluetooth options also.
    No, most tablets do not have a GPS chip. Most phones do. I'll concede that bluetooth gps is a valid option, albet a hassle to set up and use reliably.
    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    HD radio can be easily replaced with internet radio (eg I use TuneIn app for my radio needs). May not work for some because of data etc for many people it's a replacement.
    There are several local stations that are not available online, as well as non HD radio. Internet radio is not an acceptable alternative to a lot of people (me included). Also, as you said, may not work because of data useage requirements. This also adds on the question of how to get data? You are fairly limited in options, since Android doesn't support most USB cell cards. (x86 tablets, at a higher price, are exempt from this negative point)
    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    There are many bluetooth obd2 options available on both Android and iOS.
    You've obviously never used them, so I'll let this one go just saying they're miserable. Give both the iOS one and Torque a try. They're horridly designed and bad for carpc use (impossible to use without focusing on it and reading tiny text). I'll also concede here that bluetooth is a valid option for connectivity on an x86 tablet, but most if not all x86 tablets will have a USB host anyway so moot point.
    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    In terms of fitting a 7" tablet vs say a lilli or zenarc how is it that much different? I mean if you are talking about an iPad then I can see the argument but a 7" tablet presents the same issues as any car pc touchscreen. I for one am not an iPad fanboy as I think the fact that Android has many more hardware options is a great advantage for this use.
    There are quite a few single din and double din screens that fit in and give you a semi-stock look without ANY modification required other than removing your factory stereo. There is not a single option for tablets for this, nor can you fit a 7" tablet in a double-din space. It's just plain larger.

    Don't get me wrong, I use my tablet all the time, and I use it on rental cars for a temporary carpc when I go on travel. But it's also a $500 x86 tablet, which is why it's even usable. My Archos was not usable in the car at all, to the point where I shelved it (and subsequently broke it, but didn't shed any tears over it) Most of my argument is against Android tablets. X86 tablets are a half-decent alternative, as long as you are really good at fiberglassing as I mentioned above.
    "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    Well, I obviously hit some nerves. I'm well versed as to what's going on in the forums... I mean I'm pretty much on here everyday. What I find is that people seem to to be trying to fit their same hardware from say their win pc into a tablet instead if finding reasonable alternatives. I tend to look at these issues from a high level from a perspective of "most" users ie 80/20. For example, for most people why would you need to worry about BU353 on tablet when most tablets have a build GPS chip? Even if you want an external GPS then there are bluetooth options also. HD radio can be easily replaced with internet radio (eg I use TuneIn app for my radio needs). May not work for some because of data etc for many people it's a replacement. There are many bluetooth obd2 options available on both Android and iOS. In terms of fitting a 7" tablet vs say a lilli or zenarc how is it that much different? I mean if you are talking about an iPad then I can see the argument but a 7" tablet presents the same issues as any car pc touchscreen. I for one am not an iPad fanboy as I think the fact that Android has many more hardware options is a great advantge for this use.
    GPS reception is pretty crappy on a tablet inside a car, not to mention if it would be embedded somewhere in the dash it would be much worse. But yeah, putting it on top of the dashboard so there is only glass between it and the satellites would work, but would also look like a ghetto solution.
    Bluetooth is not very stable, its a horrible effort to change the batteries of the devices, not to mention that some people still want to use a handsfree solution, which means Bluesoleil, and you should know how Bluesoleil likes other Bluetooth connections... In any case, I havent seen Bluetooth HD cams, Bluetooth Phoenix MT107A, Bluetooth mobile stick (yes, I know tablets have that integrated too, but I also know how ****ty the reception of them is, if they are inside the dash or on it), Bluetooth Connection to my DSP, Bluetooth connection to my piggyback ECU, Bluetooth connection to my second touchscreen, Bluetooth connection to my JoyCon, Bluetooth to my touchpad, Bluetooth to my second camera, etc, etc, etc.
    Also I have not seen an optical out on a tablet.

    Anyway, since youre looking at a perspective from most people... Get a double DIN then. Much easier and there is one from Pioneer now that allows to use Android apps.

    Concerning how its different to put a tablet into a car (and being able to remove it any time), without it looking cheap... Tell me how a tablet would fit somewhere in here. Keep in mind, the 7" screen used fits into the gap between the buttons with 5 millimeters to spare. And its an open frame one.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gullimonster View Post
    Anyway, since youre looking at a perspective from most people... Get a double DIN then. Much easier and there is one from Pioneer now that allows to use Android apps.
    And that's exactly what will happen to the "tablet" crowd. And we'll be left with the same group of people that were here before the android craze.
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  9. #49
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    Seriously, both of you guys obviously have more extreme needs than most members. When I had my car pc installed I didn't have half the devices you guys are connecting to the car installed. I can guarantee you that a good chunk of the members here are not going to your extremes....I bet you it's music (local or internet), GPS and handsfree 80% of the time/use. I agree with some of the point you guys are making but seriously for most people these things are not that big of a deal. For example bluetooth reception on an imbedded device is not as bad you make it out to be. My experieces on a various tablet devices as well as phones (not on the dash) has actually been pretty trouble free. For data, it's so easy to just tether to your phone or get a tablet with a data sim as opposed to trying to get a usb data stick to play good. For stations, I always found it pointless to re-do the radio function in a pc when that function could be had by a head unit integration in a much more cost-effective way. Personally, I just can't see why (if data is not an issue) TuneIn app plus a head unit couldn't meet your radio needs. In addition, if most people are like me and local radio is not that important then the head unit would not even be needed.

    It's funny how you guys like to call people iPad fanboys, tell people who don't have the same viewpoint as you to go get a Pioneer headunit and "use the search" like you are spitting all the knowledge and others know nothing. This is a forum and others have the right to an opinion. By the way since there are no double din tablets and all tablet installs have wires hanging all over the place I guess this must be fake.





    I could post more examples but you guys should "use search"
    Last edited by prodigalsun; 04-09-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigalsun View Post
    Seriously, both of you guys obviously have more extreme needs than most members. When I had my car pc installed I didn't have half the devices you guys are connecting to the car installed. I can guarantee you that a good chunk of the members here are not going to your extremes....I bet you it's music (local or internet), GPS and handsfree 80% of the time/use. I agree with some of the point you guys are making but seriously for most people these things are not that big of a deal. For example bluetooth reception on an imbedded device is not as bad you make it out to be. My experieces on a various tablet devices as well as phones (not on the dash) has actually been pretty trouble free. For data, it's so easy to just tether to your phone or get a tablet with a data sim as opposed to trying to get a usb data stick to play good. For stations, I always found it pointless to re-do the radio function in a pc when that function could be had by a head unit integration in a much more cost-effective way. Personally, I just can't see why (if data is not an issue) TuneIn app plus a head unit couldn't meet your radio needs. In addition, if most people are like me and local radio is not that important then the head unit would not even be needed.

    It's funny how you guys like to call people iPad fanboys, tell people who don't have the same viewpoint as you to go get a Pioneer headunit and "use the search" like you are spitting all the knowledge and others know nothing. This is a forum and others have the right to an opinion. By the way since there are no double din tablets and all tablet installs have wires hanging all over the place I guess this must be fake.




    I could post more examples but you guys should "use search"

    Please post a link where to buy that galaxy tab double-din kit. That would be greatly beneficial to a lot of people here and I would be more than happy to be proved wrong about that. The reason I'm telling you to search is not to be pompous or in any way to make it seem like I think I'm smarter or better than you. If you got that impression I apologize, and I hope you won't hold the misunderstanding against me. I simply posted that to backup my points, so I don't get responses like I have "more extreme needs than most members". You have obviously had significantly different experiences than me with the carpc world, but it takes all kinds. As this is getting off topic, I'm going to stop posting about this. No reason for us to have this discussion, since it's been had a great many times.
    "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
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