Transreflective Upgrade - The Review

**monkeyBox** · 05-02-2006, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by grayvader

Here's the big deal -- I only paid about $125 including shipping from hong kong (to US).

Wow.. If an 8.5" is that cheap, what are their 7"s like? Any idea who is the actual manufacturer of these LCD's? If I can save a couple hundred on a decent LCD, I might be willing to to do the transflective upgrade.

**nameeri** · 05-02-2006, 11:38 PM

Monkey, take a look at this thread

Transflective Upgrade available who wants it?

Post 14 & 15, nmbenson gives some recommendations on panel manufactureres that you can use. Also, if you want to see the pricing info, you can check out http://www.fpdgroup.com/samples.php for the pricing info for the transflective upgrade on the LCD only. If you want the TS, it will cost extra.

**nmbenson** · 05-03-2006, 02:30 PM

Ok people, although I am happy with all the interest I am being flooded with repeat questions. I am building a FAQ that I will probably post soon, and/or add/delete from time to time. But for now here are the five questions I get the most often:

Q: What size LCD can you enhance with the transflective technology?

A: Any LCD size 3.5” - 23” can be done here in the US, All larger sizes must be shipped to a larger facility overseas.

Q: What size LCD do you support for touch screens made specifically for transflective enhancement?

A: 3.5” – 4” , 5.5” – 5.7” , 6.4” – 7” , 8.4” , 10.4” , 12.1” , 13.3” , 14.1” , 15.1” , 17.1” , 18.1” , 19.1” & 20”

If you bought an off size LCD that is not listed here, we cannot provide the TS for the transflective.

Q: If I get the transflective enhancement can I use my old touch screen?

A: No, stock touch screens do not have optimized optics for the LCDs they are attached to, our process matches the optics to optimize transmissivity of light to each individual LCD. In effect you get a custom optimized touch screen for your specific LCD.

Q: What does the transflective enhancement cost?

A: http://fpdgroup.com/samples.php

Q: What does the transflective optimized touch screen cost?

A: Depending upon LCD size and manufacturer the cost is between $155 – 250. Please contact nmbenson.

Additionally, please once again if you want to get ahold of me contact via email not private message through mp3car.com, I do not check my private messages.

Thank you for your interest.

-nmbenson

n.benson@fpdgroup.com
aim: nmbenson333

**turbocad6** · 05-04-2006, 06:37 PM

o.k.... a question to you nathan.... I have done a ton of research on lcd's & the differing technologies & methods manufactures use to build lcd's....

the three main types are regular transmisive, reflective, & a hybrid of the 2... transflective....

the regular transmisive has the best contrast & color rendering by far... with contrast ratios of 300:1 & better in most cases....

reflective has no where near this kind of contrast, just from the simple fact that in order for the rear reflector to actually recieve light the pixels can never really close all the way..... reflective screens usually have bad contrast ratios of like 10:1....

now transflective is also limited in the contrast ratios achievable & lean more towards the horrible contrast ratios of a reflective screen...., although I have seen some transflective screens with high contrast ratios too...

how does your modification fit into all of this..... I mean if the lcd itself was not designed to be a transflective, then I'm assuming the panel with a high contrast ratio wouldn't lend well to this transflective upgrade, just because if the pixels closed all the way on black or most of the way on darker colors, this would have to negate any enhancements that the transflective film could provide...

I have spoke to you on the phone already about my 12.1" widescreen & the viewing angle issues I have, & want to thank you here for all of your help & advice so far......... I am now in the market for the "best" solution.... but the more research I do the more I realize that there really is no "best" solution or "best" lcd... everything is a trade-off.....

what kind of contrast ratios can be expected from a modified screen & what kind of contrast ratios can be expected from a true "manufactured to be transflective" display? is there a difference? what about the fact that a mirror layer blocks some of the available backlight for nightime use, is there a significant penalty in nightime use with this upgrade?

thank you for all of your input & help to this community.... it's very refreashing to see a company that actually will deal with end consumers on the level you have here.... thank you from me & all here.....

**nmbenson** · 05-05-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by turbocad6

o.k.... a question to you nathan.... I have done a ton of research on lcd's & the differing technologies & methods manufactures use to build lcd's....

the three main types are regular transmisive, reflective, & a hybrid of the 2... transflective....

the regular transmisive has the best contrast & color rendering by far... with contrast ratios of 300:1 & better in most cases....

reflective has no where near this kind of contrast, just from the simple fact that in order for the rear reflector to actually recieve light the pixels can never really close all the way..... reflective screens usually have bad contrast ratios of like 10:1....

now transflective is also limited in the contrast ratios achievable & lean more towards the horrible contrast ratios of a reflective screen...., although I have seen some transflective screens with high contrast ratios too...

This is true however reflective screens were never designed for indoor application, furthermore the application use for reflective screens has all but fallen completely to the side of using transmissive displays and modified transmissive displays.

how does your modification fit into all of this..... I mean if the lcd itself was not designed to be a transflective, then I'm assuming the panel with a high contrast ratio wouldn't lend well to this transflective upgrade, just because if the pixels closed all the way on black or most of the way on darker colors, this would have to negate any enhancements that the transflective film could provide...

This is also true to an extent... the transmissive display does lend its properties to the tranflective enhancement however all (and I mean all) of the speculation of quality of the process is DEPENDENT upon the display being modified... in effect: ****ty panel + enhancement = a better visable ****ty panel

I have spoke to you on the phone already about my 12.1" widescreen & the viewing angle issues I have, & want to thank you here for all of your help & advice so far......... I am now in the market for the "best" solution.... but the more research I do the more I realize that there really is no "best" solution or "best" lcd... everything is a trade-off.....

The best solution is transflective, the best LCD comes from specs associated with the display, if at all possible contact the manufacturer and find the specs on a display before buying... additionally closed frame, off the shelf, like Xenarc and Lilliput, you have to find out the specs on the LCD inside not the specs from those companies; but in the end all (and I feel redundant in saying so) depends upon your existing panel. AR coatings only go so far as seen with thepics.

what kind of contrast ratios can be expected from a modified screen & what kind of contrast ratios can be expected from a true "manufactured to be transflective" display? is there a difference? what about the fact that a mirror layer blocks some of the available backlight for nightime use, is there a significant penalty in nightime use with this upgrade?

As of now already manufactured as transflective displays are primarily focused in high end cell phones and pda apps of newer products. It hasn't been until recently that transflective has "come of age". When the first displays made by Phillips that were transflective came out (5-6 years ago), they were terrible to say the least. Because of this the industry has partly stayed away from the manufacture of this because of expense for quality output and additional cost added to production lines... besides where is the market? For the last few years it has been mostly high end users and military.

thank you for all of your input & help to this community.... it's very refreashing to see a company that actually will deal with end consumers on the level you have here.... thank you from me & all here.....

You are welcome, I appreciate your appreciation.

**grayvader** · 05-05-2006, 07:25 PM

I have to echo turbocad6's thanks. There are an awful lot of us out here that really appreciate the time you've taken to educate us. I especially appreciate that your company is taking the time to deal with us as "end users" on a low volume basis.

Much thanks!

(oh, and I should have my panel soon, so expect another email)

**nmbenson** · 05-08-2006, 12:31 PM

ONE MORE THING EVERYONE...

A lot of you have been contacting me via email... great... however I have to make one thing clear because I am getting a lot of requests for us to source the panel for you and I am not sure if I have mentioned this before... Because of you all being end users and quantity plays a huge role in cost and price, we DO NOT supply the lcd for you. The costs that accumulate are to high for us to pass on to you. I understand that you all are price sensitive so for us to procure the panel and modify it, will cost you a percentage of the total expense (shipping + panel cost + 15% + enhancement cost). I have been referring people to either the manufacturer of their choice or a reseller like Accele. Please note that when contacting resellers of open frame lcds, make sure you specify your video input needs, resolution, power supply, etc. as well as make sure that the open frame lcd comes with controller board, osd (optional), and inverter.

So to recap so that it is very clear: YOU PROVIDE THE SCREEN, WE DO THE ENHANCEMENT. WE DO NOT PROCURE LCDS FOR END USERS ON A SINGLE UNIT LEVEL.

Additionally, you can have the LCD drop shipped to us to save you money on shipping.

**tom2112** · 05-09-2006, 11:35 AM

Thanks Nathan. I'm glad you posted that last message. I was just about to call you and ask that very question.

**grayvader** · 05-09-2006, 10:58 PM

Yea! I finally got my monitor from Hong Kong. I took it apart and it is what I thought it would be. It's a Toshiba LTM084P363.

Nathan -- Have you guys done this one? I think it's pretty much the same as the LTM08C351 from what I understand.

Anyway, for 122.99 I got it, shipped from Hong Kong.

From some guys on ebay: digital_and_tech

I looked, and dammit, they aren't listing any now.

Here's the one I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=9717162282

Keep an eye out for more.

edit:
i found this, it's exactly what i got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/8-4-LCD-TFT-Colo...QQcmdZViewItem

**nmbenson** · 05-10-2006, 12:04 PM

That is great, by the way: this is exactly how a lot of smaller companies procure LCDs, they buy quantity from overseas of items that don't sell well there. Because the US is a "bit" (to put it mildly) behind we can come up on items like that that with shipping is cheaper than something in the US (and probably better quality).

Anyways...

Grayvader we just need the LCD inside, taken out and sent to us. We do not want the responsibility of taking it apart.

Nameeri's panel should be done around monday I think, but he is out of town until the 22nd, so sorry guys you will all have to wait to see it.

-nmbenson