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Thread: Why do our car screens have higher response times then desktops?

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    Why do our car screens have higher response times then desktops?

    The typical rule of thumb is the larger the panel, the higher the response time, so one would think if the average desktop LCD could pull off 8ms, then a 7" screen should be much faster. Why is it then ours are around 30ms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96TransAm View Post
    The typical rule of thumb is the larger the panel, the higher the response time, so one would think if the average desktop LCD could pull off 8ms, then a 7" screen should be much faster. Why is it then ours are around 30ms?
    Not necessarly the bigger the higher the response time,37 and 42 LCD TV are down to 8ms now. "Device Specs" reflect application and demand. 7"LCD are only marketed towards Car Navi systems...and are slowly penetrating Portble Audio/Video Devices. Wtih Car Navi, you don't need high refresh rates....no high speed motion like videos. So the "general mass market" doesn't demand one...developing a 8ms 7" LCD panel will cost more while companies will buy a 30ms panel that they need.

    So until the Portable Video industry takes off, we will continue to have high response times.

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    Yup give it a yr or so. My home pc monitor is sub 4ms..... If only there was room for a 19" DVI TFT in a car! Wait for the rollups!
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    If a manufacture can make a 20" LCD with 4-8ms times and resell it for 250-400 dollars, why can't a 7" panel be made for half that? We are paying about what we should for state-of-the-art panels....but are getting ones that are behind 6 years in technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96TransAm View Post
    If a manufacture can make a 20" LCD with 4-8ms times and resell it for 250-400 dollars, why can't a 7" panel be made for half that? We are paying about what we should for state-of-the-art panels....but are getting ones that are behind 6 years in technology.
    Because of economics! Opporunity Cost and Supply & Demand. It's not the cost of producing it, it's how much they can sell it for.

    Supply and Technology is not an issue. We can crank out as fast a people can buy 7" LCD monitors, the technology is present. Oppurunity cost....why should (for example) a Sharp factory start making 7" LCD monitors instead of 40" LCD monitors? There is more demand for 40" then 7", so the Sharp will make 40". Meanwhile, other...smaller companies will make 7". Just to design, setup an entire factory line, manufactur, tooling...etc...it's not worth it for companies time and effort.

    The DEMAND is simply not there. If you want a custom/specialtiy product...you have to PAY! Just like the EPIA VIA. Small, super slow (compared to today's standards), but it's still expensive ~$300...the process of making one is not any more expensive, still the regular size components. You can buy a laptop onsale for $400, comes with HD, CD, and LCD...why, because they make $$$ in volume. So with 7" LCD...they sell low volume...but to make profit they have to sell very high to get a profital margin. OR a Mini-itx PEntium M MB...$370!!! jut for the board...not becuase it's small, it's because it's a "custom/specialty" item. The company will not make money on selling many of them...so they have to make money by raising the price.

    Okay, pretend that demain is as follows....
    100 people want a 20" LCD for $250 which cost them $~200 to make. It would cost 20000 to make and they well sell for 25000 profit of 5000.
    Say
    10 people want a 7" LCD for 200 which cost them $~50 to make. It would cost 500 to make and would sell for 2000 profit of 1500. IF you want to sell a 7" for 100, they would only profit 750.
    Profit if measure off the demand curve and not profit per unit. They make more money selling 7" then 20"...but you won't be selling millions and billions of 7" as you would with a 20"

    Another example....pretend....Sony spent (to keep things simple) $10,000 to design the PS4, and to make a PS4, it will cost $100. Let's say the PS4 sucks so bad that ONLY 10 people want to buy it, Sony would charge ATLEAST $11,000/10 = $1,100 just to break even. Let's say that the PS4 is getting ok reviews and now 100 people wanted to buy it, Sony would charge atleast $21,000/100=$210

    Producing a Core Duo 1.66, 1.83, and 2.0GHZ cost the same for each unit...but why does the 2.0GHZ cost 2.5 times more then then 1.66? It's not the cost of producing, it's how much they can sell it for

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    I understand the supply and demand situation. But, what I don't understand is if they can make a 30ms panel, why not make another that cost 50 bucks more that is a 8ms panel? It doesn't cost Hitachia anymore to make a 8ms then it does a 30ms, it is developing the technology that's expensive...which they have already done.

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    30ms is 33fps... TV is only like 25 anyway, so why do you need more?

    an 8ms response time will yield you an unblurred 120fps... you cant even see things that fast!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 96TransAm View Post
    I understand the supply and demand situation. But, what I don't understand is if they can make a 30ms panel, why not make another that cost 50 bucks more that is a 8ms panel? It doesn't cost Hitachia anymore to make a 8ms then it does a 30ms, it is developing the technology that's expensive...which they have already done.
    I'm pretty sure they will do a custom order for anyone who wants to. Probably minimum order of Qty 1000, at about $500 each. Technology is already there, but they still have to develope a 7" 8MS panel...controller, testing, warrenty...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack View Post
    30ms is 33fps... TV is only like 25 anyway, so why do you need more?

    an 8ms response time will yield you an unblurred 120fps... you cant even see things that fast!!!
    Because I don't want to use it for TV :P

    8ms is actually16ms to the real world, and can lag as much as 60...so imagine what a 30ms panel does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AcuraTLFan View Post
    Producing a Core Duo 1.66, 1.83, and 2.0GHZ cost the same for each unit...but why does the 2.0GHZ cost 2.5 times more then then 1.66? It's not the cost of producing, it's how much they can sell it for
    Actually yes they cost the same to make and often come from the same wafer. The problem which leads to higher costs is that it is harder to get those 2ghz chips.
    Ex: 100 people want a 2.0ghz cpu. on 1 wafer is say 100 die (die is a microprocessor), 5 of these dies have defects of some form or another making them unusable, 15 test out at less then 1.66 ghz and are junked, 40 test at 1.66 and 30 test out at 1.83, which leaves only 10 coming at 2.0ghz. So to get 100 2.0ghz chips would require 10 wafers, if everything tested out the same it would also produce 400 1.66ghz chips and 300 1.83 ghz chip. So in the case of cpu's its more of a supply issue for the higher end products driving price then demand. This doesnt even take into account the wafers that are scrapped or test out zero bin'd(no good die on the wafer). While it may seem that they can make their money back off of the lower (1.6, 1.83) cpus this doesnt work out since you wind up have more supply of these then are being demanded.

    edit: Sorry for the possible thread jacking. Just wanted to clarify a common misconception about cpu cost.
    Avengerki
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