Thread: mac FE reality ...

@ navigation
I have never really looked into this but found this ... roadnav

I do agree though that turn-by-turn navigation is extremely limited on OSX but many of us already have a iphone and GoogleMaps are the place that we already turn to. (lolo, that was a pun wasn't it )

@ meego
Another interesting solution ... have you been able to gather anybody from there to help?

@ outside application developers
Recruiting within mp3car is not really what I was thinking.

A "passive approach" has not worked so far so I am thinking that if we were to "actively approach" some of these outside open source groups who are still being some what active we might be able to get them on board and motivate them once again to push even further along.

@ organization
I really do think that the community here needs to step back for a second and decide which way it wants to go. Stay a hobby or build some kind of foundation/consortium.

Obviously there benefits and draw backs to both sides.

But with a foundation such along the types of the linux foundation I think that we could start building energy that would draw in a larger and wider base of people to draw from.

@ money / time
With a foundation in place time could be spread out among groups/individuals to work on what they do best.
coders, designers, managers, marketers

I do realize that we are talking thousands of man hours here. Obviously, NOT just a few days.

With a game plan firmly in place (from what I've seen ICE and OM are doing really good here) we could take this to outside people for donations!

kickstarter allows you set up projects to ask for donations ($1~$10k). AND you keep full control of your project. There are even other sites that do the same.

Getting out and creating a buzz is really important!

@ functionality
I came across mp3car looking for a handsfree solution for my iphone. Alpine and Parrot were the obvious choices but after seeing what I saw on youtube I was hooked. I'm sure there are many others out there who come here along similar lines.

With a set plan and goals, outside resources supporting us, and a larger active user base this really could exciting fast!

@ coders
I do understand that coders are artists! I, also, understand their mentality. But this is where things get fuzzy and difficult. It really takes time to create the momentum that draws in people. Drupal is an excellent example of this. Drupal has been around for ages and has even outlived phpnuke - postnuke. Both of the original nukes were developer driven but couldn't / didn't make the switch. Another cms example would be etomite. Great idea but limited to only be surpassed by modxcms which is a foundation driven albeit coder heavy system.

I do not want to take control away from the programmers but rather find a system that would allow them to work on what they do best - code and at the same time get non-coders into the fray by having them focus on documentation, marketing, design and what not.

@ FEs developers
Has there ever been some kind of informal get together to try to work together?
You all could talk about what you're doing and consider the possibility of joining forces

I'm curious what a Mac front end would really target. An ideal carpc shouldn't really deal with the desktop, but should instead be all you ever interact with. What would a Mac offer a carpc? I can't really think of a feature you would gain. Plus, you'd be tied to more expensive, non car friendly hardware.

I'm really not trying to start some flame war or anything. I just don't think osx brings anything to the table but restrictions. I'm thinking there's a reason not many are using Macs in cars, and it's certainly not just the basicly lower market share.

Don't worry about your comments turning into a flame war, since I think that each person has their own personal taste

@ hardware
For the most part, apple hardware is limited by what is available on the market, basically -- screwed.

@ osx
hmm, still haven't really come up with an opinion yet, since I'm still tinkering with XP as a carpc base.

@ car installs
From what I can gather macs in the car probably cost more and take more time to find all the parts in puzzle to join in the fun compared to going to ebay and buying a voompc + lilliput (which is dead simple).

One thing I'd give the mac mini a few points for is that if you ever get bored of your carpc you can always just drop it on your table and use it as a regular desktop again compared to custom enclosure wintel pcs

Also, there is always the hackintosh route!


On the above 3 points a wintel machine wins pretty much hands down. So, I can agree with you.

@ other factors
I guess a lot of the mac carpcs are being done to say that it can be done
Satisfaction is always a big motivator.

A possiblity for a lower mac count could be just simple mind share ... apple is like what ??? 5% of the pc market so, it would make sense that 5% of carpc market is apple.

@ desktop

An ideal carpc shouldn't really deal with the desktop, but should instead be all you ever interact with.

Now that is the holy grail
If that is a main target that I'd bet that tripzero's LinuxICE is aiming for that.

I don't really see this integration in centrafuse or RoadRunner (unless I have set them up improperly -- I'm xp dumb ) lolo, I probably need to set up some config that autostarts the programs ... but even then you still end up at the desktop one time or another.

@ why I'm thinking about OSX as a base ...
Xcode - SDK tools for osx
SproutCore ... said to be the javascript cod e that apple is using for interface widgets
Iphone -- no need for introduction


However, I really would like to see more outside developers getting involved

Originally Posted by SapporoGuy

@ desktop

Now that is the holy grail
If that is a main target that I'd bet that tripzero's LinuxICE is aiming for that.

I don't really see this integration in centrafuse or RoadRunner (unless I have set them up improperly -- I'm xp dumb ) lolo, I probably need to set up some config that autostarts the programs ... but even then you still end up at the desktop one time or another.

This is why I still use StreetDeck2.. because everything IS in that single app, and the only time I ever see the desktop is when It's booting up.. so that's only for a few seconds, before I'm even in the car. I'll continue to use it until something better comes along (looks like OpenMobile will end up being it's replacement in my car).

just wanted to comment on the 'holy grail'--ie. the frontend being all that you interact with, and see--for me this would never work-- i use a external program to control my audio processing-- and while it would be great to integrate it with a fe, the reality, is that it will probably never be done.

for instance-- if apple has 5% of pc's market,then carputers that are built for audio processing are less then 1%(probably less then 0.5%). so much so, that there isn't even(and i don't believe that there ever has been) any car-audio-specific programs on the market-- so we use dj programs, and external processors, that we can control on the fly...

/rant

overall, i think i need to keep an eye on this thread there seems to be some great points being made..

Originally Posted by soundman98

just wanted to comment on the 'holy grail'--ie. the frontend being all that you interact with, and see--for me this would never work-- i use a external program to control my audio processing-- and while it would be great to integrate it with a fe, the reality, is that it will probably never be done.

for instance-- if apple has 5% of pc's market,then carputers that are built for audio processing are less then 1%(probably less then 0.5%). so much so, that there isn't even(and i don't believe that there ever has been) any car-audio-specific programs on the market-- so we use dj programs, and external processors, that we can control on the fly...

/rant

overall, i think i need to keep an eye on this thread there seems to be some great points being made..

I guess that depends on what external program you are using for the processing, and what kind of tweaking you are doing. I use KX Project for my audio subsystem. Presets can be loaded in with command line functions (launched a single button in the front-end). Other adjustments can be done through MIDI automation, which could be integrated into a front end. (sliders on screen that transmit the proper MIDI commands to the audio system).

i tried kxproject, and it worked great, though i had many issues with my pci slot and pci flex cable not getting along, and prohibiting the system from booting, so i had to resort to audiomulch, and a usb sound card.

I think kx works with the PCMCIA audigy card... might be an option for some carpc users.

Originally Posted by soundman98

just wanted to comment on the 'holy grail'--ie. the frontend being all that you interact with, and see--for me this would never work-- i use a external program to control my audio processing-- and while it would be great to integrate it with a fe, the reality, is that it will probably never be done.

+1. Early phones where a single app that did everything. That won't cut it for today's needs. That's why every handset OS supports multiple apps and multi-tasking (Apple's Iphone excepted in the multi-tasking arena).

IMHO, and this is how the big dawgs do it, is the Frontend is the desktop, and then you build apps on top. That's how Android works, Maemo, Iphone OS, WebOS, MeeGo, etc.

You can only do this with Windows Mobile, or Linux. W-Mo costs big bucks so your only open/free option is Linux. Mac OSx is to closed to do it right IMHO.

@ meego
Another interesting solution ... have you been able to gather anybody from there to help?

Not yet. But i'm not trying to get more help. Mostly because not everything in MeeGo is complete or open yet. When it progresses a little more, I'm sure we'll get a good group who will want to help make it work in the car. Esp since it'll run great on tablet/slates which seem to be a popular option for cars these days... BTW, MeeGo runs natively on MacOSx