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Thread: mac FE reality ...

  1. #21
    Mod - all of it. SapporoGuy's Avatar
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    @ unification of FEs
    This has been bothering me for a few days now, why isn't there more cooperation between each of you all?
    justchat with OM
    trip with ICE
    bug with his thing ...

    ???

    @ crossover
    i don't believe that there ever has been) any car-audio-specific programs on the market
    Another reason why I keep mentioning that we need to get developers of regular apps to open their projects so that we could take advantage of their backend code

    @ os
    Couldn't ChromeOS / android be used as the base OS?
    Or is MeeGo really going to come through?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapporoGuy View Post
    @ unification of FEs
    This has been bothering me for a few days now, why isn't there more cooperation between each of you all?
    justchat with OM
    trip with ICE
    bug with his thing ...

    ???
    I've been trying to stay out of this one as long as correct info is being passed around (which it looks like it has) but since you asked my input..here ya go


    For the most part, us open source guys work together on the important stuff. For example, malcom2073 is creating the hd radio driver for both openMobile and linuxICE using the same open source code base.
    On lots of areas relating to OM on linux, kev has been a huge help with working through bugs and figuring out the best way to achieve the necessary functionality. A lot of the work OM does for various hardware support will probably be ported to linuxICE (since our code will be guaranteed to work on linux and is open source).

    The cooperation kind of ends there at the moment and its really just due to a fundamental difference in design philosophy. This has been discussed at length in multiple threads and there really is no right and wrong way. linuxICE and OM have very different acrhitectures each with their +'s and -'s.
    We prefer a monolithic front end with thread isolation, linuxICE prefers a multiprocess approach. This requires very different designs for everything from minor plugins to low level drivers.
    Quote Originally Posted by SapporoGuy View Post
    @ crossover

    Another reason why I keep mentioning that we need to get developers of regular apps to open their projects so that we could take advantage of their backend code
    The problem with this approach is that it often leads to hacking together things that really don't belong. This is a design philosophy issue and i'm sure different developers have different opinions. With OM we try to do as much as possible either from scratch or using existing code designed exactly for the purpose we're using it. Its kind of the anti-ride runner philosophy which uses 30 "helper apps" and bits of scripting just to do simple tasks.

    While yes access to source code or API's can significantly increase development speed and stability, when done incorrectly it can end up decreasing stability and multiplying potential points of failure (not to mention bloat).
    Quote Originally Posted by SapporoGuy View Post
    @ os
    Couldn't ChromeOS / android be used as the base OS?
    Or is MeeGo really going to come through?
    I don't even think trip could tell you if/when meego is going to become fully functional.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapporoGuy View Post
    @ os
    Couldn't ChromeOS / android be used as the base OS?
    Android would be very well suited to in-car use. However, it's support in the x86 realm is rather limited (see androidx86.org), so getting it going on available hardware is not easy (Android really likes to run on a specific set of hardware, with not a whole lot of variances in configuration. I do see where android tablets will be used in the car, and if there becomes some android based 'net-top' type hardware, it would definitely be well suited. Certainly not there yet though.
    2000 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer - Bi-Fuel Gasoline/CNG
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  4. #24
    MySQL Error soundman98's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapporoGuy View Post
    @ crossover

    Another reason why I keep mentioning that we need to get developers of regular apps to open their projects so that we could take advantage of their backend code
    I think that the kxproject software has a little more 'embed-ability' then other programs-- last I remember, it integrated its self into the task bar, so I don't believe it would be drasticaly difficult to just tell it to open in a fe screen(even though that goes against OM's policy). I also tend to think that thereare enough users with it to make it worthwhile.

    I on the other hand, have used console and audiomulch(currently in use), and I don't believe that either would embed/integrate into anything--I don't even think they are skinnable(like the kxproject)

    what I would Really like to see is a fe that takes over the audio outputs at least allowing basic users to have manually configurable front/rear/sub outputs from the onboard audio...exactly like a headunit... Though I think this might stay as a dream-- I completely understand how many drivers, and hours it could take to even get half of a program to do that

  5. #25
    Mod - all of it. SapporoGuy's Avatar
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    @ OM - ICE
    We prefer a monolithic front end with thread isolation, linuxICE prefers a multiprocess approach.
    Coming in late in the game to say this but what about a webkit like system?
    Apple and Googling doing their own thing with the same base code.
    I bring this up since it seems that they way they handle their code base something is different between them since Chrome runs a process for each tab (it seems) while Safari is one huge process.

    Is this the same for the differences you talked about?

    I just keep thinking that if you guys combined efforts but yet still found a way like Apple and Google everybody would benefit.

    @ audio processing
    I don't if this is related but I was playing with the realtek software that controls my audio and what you mentioned got me thinking. Isn't there a way to access the drivers directly? Or like I keep preaching ( I agree, I am starting to sound like a broken record ) and ask the manufacturer directly for some kind of support.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapporoGuy View Post
    @ OM - ICE


    Coming in late in the game to say this but what about a webkit like system?
    Apple and Googling doing their own thing with the same base code.
    I bring this up since it seems that they way they handle their code base something is different between them since Chrome runs a process for each tab (it seems) while Safari is one huge process.

    Is this the same for the differences you talked about?

    I just keep thinking that if you guys combined efforts but yet still found a way like Apple and Google everybody would benefit.

    @ audio processing
    I don't if this is related but I was playing with the realtek software that controls my audio and what you mentioned got me thinking. Isn't there a way to access the drivers directly? Or like I keep preaching ( I agree, I am starting to sound like a broken record ) and ask the manufacturer directly for some kind of support.
    WebKit is one library that they happen to share for a specific task. This is very different from (for example) apple and microsoft sharing os level code. We do share libraries from time to time like I mentioned before, for example the HD Radio driver created by malcom2073.

    @audio processing:
    You will NEVER see support from a manufacturer for such a a small community. Linux has enough trouble convincing manufacturers to port code/make specific changes. Theres also some flaws with you logic here relating to sound drivers in kernal-mode not user mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
    what I would Really like to see is a fe that takes over the audio outputs at least allowing basic users to have manually configurable front/rear/sub outputs from the onboard audio...exactly like a headunit... Though I think this might stay as a dream-- I completely understand how many drivers, and hours it could take to even get half of a program to do that
    Probably not as difficult as you would think. Can you explain a bit more what you mean?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    WebKit is one library that they happen to share for a specific task. This is very different from (for example) apple and microsoft sharing os level code. We do share libraries from time to time like I mentioned before, for example the HD Radio driver created by malcom2073.
    Very true. It'd be nice to standardize on other things like nobdy as well across our platforms.

    One thing that MeeGo will succeed in that LinuxICE failed in is that all the apps will share a common touchscreen UI library much like how chromium processes share the same WebKit library. This will keep all apps looking and functioning consistently across the entire OS.

    @ os
    Couldn't ChromeOS / android be used as the base OS?
    Or is MeeGo really going to come through?
    MeeGo's core OS is already released (in preview-ish type fashon). Only the reference UI/apps haven't been released yet. The function of the OS should be to boot up quickly, load my stuff and get the hell out of the way. Android and ChromeOS are poor choices because of their security frameworks and non-standard components for basic system tasks which require developers to play work-around. ChromeOS is a knock off of MeeGo and is thus a bit more standard except for the additions of google's security model and chromium browser.
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
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  8. #28
    MySQL Error soundman98's Avatar
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    for the audio-- i mean that i would like to see the audio ports be re-configured to become very close to what a normal head unit has-- front, rear, and sub outputs, along with fader controls. i would also like to see that same app have some crossovers built in (most fe's already have a eq built in, so not worth mentioning here)-- so anyone familiar with a normal head unit could tweak their system a little, without having to get external sound processors, or audio programs...

    this wouldn't have any effect on me, but i have answered plenty of posts from new members that would have a interest in a feature like that..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
    for the audio-- i mean that i would like to see the audio ports be re-configured to become very close to what a normal head unit has-- front, rear, and sub outputs, along with fader controls. i would also like to see that same app have some crossovers built in (most fe's already have a eq built in, so not worth mentioning here)-- so anyone familiar with a normal head unit could tweak their system a little, without having to get external sound processors, or audio programs...

    this wouldn't have any effect on me, but i have answered plenty of posts from new members that would have a interest in a feature like that..
    So things like fade+balance (front to rear-left to right) should be very doable...kinda in the category of eq like you said. I also want to see single card multi-zone. For example if you have a 7.1 card and only use 4.1 you can use the sub channel for wireless headphones and mark it as a separate zone. But i'll try not to thread jack for once so thats all i'll say about this lol.

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