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Thread: Meego IVI Status Thread

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripzero View Post
    For example, there are Qt mobility APIs for routing and creating a map. If you wanted to use EFL, you would either have to create a wrapper for these or make your own from scratch. Or you could write a Qt application and with a few lines have a navigation app .
    Careful there.....Qts Maps and Navigation APIs allow a navigation engine to provide a map to other Qt components. They don't provide any type of mapping or navigation, that requires a third party engine (which they call a service) of which none exist. Its more of a strong data type then anything functional.

    As far as it being not just a UI framework..true it is an application framework but really just an option for developing a UX layer on. Other UX layers could use qt as well or they could use their own frameworks. Nothing about meego's design or anything i've seen in any plans requires inter-plugin communication or data sharing. afaik

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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Careful there.....Qts Maps and Navigation APIs allow a navigation engine to provide a map to other Qt components. They don't provide any type of mapping or navigation, that requires a third party engine (which they call a service) of which none exist. Its more of a strong data type then anything functional.

    As far as it being not just a UI framework..true it is an application framework but really just an option for developing a UX layer on. Other UX layers could use qt as well or they could use their own frameworks. Nothing about meego's design or anything i've seen in any plans requires inter-plugin communication or data sharing. afaik
    Right now there is an OVI/Navteq service backend for developers to use. There is also an open solution in the works that will likely be included in the reference platforms.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripzero View Post
    MeeGo.com only provides references. You can say a reference is a demo of sorts. For example, the whole point of the handset UX (user experience) is to provide a set of example applications that use the underlying Qt-based frameworks and show off the features of the platform. The meego ux from meego.com isn't meant to be used in a product although an OEM may opt to do so at his discretion. Or the OEM may opt to use their own user experience and ditch the UX that comes in the reference. This is the case in harmattan, Nokia's version of MeeGo which they will release as part of a product.
    I don't think that quite right... From a forum post (again PM):

    Your ideas align with some of the original ideas for IVIhome/IVItaskbar, which included selecting items from the scrolling taskbar could result in popout of a new taskbar with addition options to the original item select. The IVIhome/taskbar is a sample of possible automotive taskbar. It was not designed by professional designers, rather the rough ideas of a couple of developers. Most of the applications included in MeeGo IVI are borrowed from other devices, and have not been adjusted in any way to fit the IVI style, homescreen or display. They are there only to show the underlaying capabilities of the platform are functional. Thus they are useful for validation of the system features. The only applications that have been developed specifically for MeeGo IVi are the IVIhome/Taskbar and the handsfree dialer.

    And here's more from our email exchange:

    The GenIVI goals are specific to GenIVI. The MeeGo IVI working group is very interested in work done by GenIVI and any opportunities to provide mutual alignment and support. However GenIVI and MeeGo IVI are not one entity and GenIVI goals should not be interpreted as the sum total of MeeGo IVI goals. The MeeGo IVI working group will define "what MeeGo IVI would look like"

    For example if you look at the charter of MeeGo working groups, the focus is on the user experience

    (bold is mine) My take from this, specifically for IVI, is that it really hasn't started yet. While there are feature request on the bug.meego.com site, they don't represent actually requirements (as of yet) as they haven't been vetted by the project team. But the end game is going to be a *fully* operational product -- one that can/would be run in a car. And given his last statement about "working groups", it seems this is generally true (ie: for all meego platforms)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nasa View Post
    I don't think that quite right...
    Bottom line is that in order to even remotely look like a compelling platform and show off platform features, you need a compelling user experience. I think this is essentially what is being said in your discussions. You can't have an awesome UX without solid APIs and you can't really convince people to use your APIs if they don't see it working in a compelling UX.
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    When you see MeeGo in BMW or whoever's product based on meego ivi, you probably won't see the same UX as you see in the reference, open source version. However, BMW's build may still be called and considered meego compliant (note that the definition of compliance for IVI has not landed).
    The problem is the entire fully independent app design of meego makes this impossible. You would need to specially compile each individual app (and if you remember from our "what ui design is needed for in vehicle" or whatever it was called i feel this is the reason meego has 0 chance of success).

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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    The problem is the entire fully independent app design of meego makes this impossible. You would need to specially compile each individual app (and if you remember from our "what ui design is needed for in vehicle" or whatever it was called i feel this is the reason meego has 0 chance of success).
    I'm not exactly following what you mean there...

    Say BMW is based on MeeGo 1.3, you download MeeGo 1.3's (or later) SDK, you build your app and it should run on all 1.3 or later MeeGo systems. If your app is open source, you build it on the public obs server http://cbuild.meego.com and you submit it to one of the public repositories. Once it's on the server, it'll be rebuilt for every target platform and OEMs like BMW can mirror the repo or the entire server for their own purposes.

    (NOTE: iirc, OBS can even be used to build closed source applications)

    Finally, Qt-Quick apps don't require compiling. So if your app is Qt-Quick based, package it up once and throw it in whichever store you prefer.

    If your app draws upon the common components/widgets in any of the MeeGo APIs, it'll automatically look right for the given environment. That's the magic of theming.

    So with that information clarified, what's the issue again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripzero View Post
    I'm not exactly following what you mean there...

    Say BMW is based on MeeGo 1.3, you download MeeGo 1.3's (or later) SDK, you build your app and it should run on all 1.3 or later MeeGo systems. If your app is open source, you build it on the public obs server http://cbuild.meego.com and you submit it to one of the public repositories. Once it's on the server, it'll be rebuilt for every target platform and OEMs like BMW can mirror the repo or the entire server for their own purposes.

    (NOTE: iirc, OBS can even be used to build closed source applications)

    Finally, Qt-Quick apps don't require compiling. So if your app is Qt-Quick based, package it up once and throw it in whichever store you prefer.

    If your app draws upon the common components/widgets in any of the MeeGo APIs, it'll automatically look right for the given environment. That's the magic of theming.

    So with that information clarified, what's the issue again?
    Theming!=skinning
    Should BMW want to create a new UX they would need to rewrite each app to match the layout they need for their UX. The idea of theming is great for the linux os where some people want red progress bars and others want transparent blue but the only layout it can effect is the titlebar (which meego doesn't use). My argument is the entire idea of the platform is far too inflexible for real world use.

    To prove my point how much work would it be to do this:
    http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/atta...o_idrive_2.jpg
    http://www.2dayblog.com/images/2010/...blackberry.jpg

  8. #18
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    Given my description of IVI -- we can mesh this all togather...

    1. The IVI is a specialized version of the Core. It would provide things like the kernel, backends for things like USB, GPS, speech, mapping, music, video, etc. It would also proivde APIs for building the UX.

    2. Companies can then pick & choose the features from the IVI and create a UX on top of it -- using the provided APIs if desired (well, some will have to be used to interface with the backends)

    3. A default UX will be created to prove how great the IVI is... (good point trip)

    so justchat is right, each company will have rewrite apps for thier environment -- which may or maynot be that hard depending on what decisions they made up front. But I wouldn't call this inflexible. Actually, it allows the car guys to figure out ways to differentiate themselves in a competitive market.


    -------------------

    Now on to other issues (to help in future status discussions):

    As has been noted, Meego 1.1 has been released. What does that mean? Only that it's newer than 1.0. Across all the platforms the same numbering scheme is going to be used. But that doesn't mean they are at the same level of maturity. The Netbook UX is the most mature of the released products, while I wouldn't consider the 1.1 IVI to actually be *released*. Until actual requirements for what the IVI will actually look like, I would consider it pre alpha, at best. Looking at the release numbers will not tell you when that happens, so I will make sure to note what level of maturity it's at when I talk about future releases.

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    I'm quite aware of the differences between skins and themes.

    Should BMW want to create a new UX they would need to rewrite each app to match the layout they need for their UX.
    Exactly. Like I said before, GenIVI members probably don't care about what UX MeeGo comes with. They, in all likelihood are going to do just that: rewrite their own UX layer as a way they can differentiate themselves in the market. The idea isn't uncommon. There are quite a few Android phones where the OEM has designed their own UX on top of Android as a way to differentiate themselves from other Android phones.

    Now how 3rd party apps work in such an environment where designs contrast greatly is still a question. But who knows if BMW, etc will even allow 3rd party apps on their platform. Maybe they'll require all 3rd party apps to be specifically written to their platform. I doubt it would be any different for any other platform. If BMW took open mobile and re-skinned it to match their UI design, a 3rd party plugin which is laid out in accordance with the original design is going to look out of place unless re-skinned as well.

    Another option is, if the reference UX is written in QML, then the OEMs have the option of forking and re-skinning to match their designs (which is one reason why the reference apps are all Apache v2 licensed). Even if they are C++, they are open source and licensed in such a way that allows OEMs to take and change they way they look/function. Or they have the option of just re-theming and keeping the original layout and design. Lots of options here so how is this in anyway inflexible? Flexibility, in reality, is all about choice.
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    Slide presentations from the Conference...
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