, if his marketing stratagys made any sense he'd have enough money to buy the f'in software in the first place
1) You have your business model and other "intellectual talents" have theirs. Yours may be fine for you, but there are others that have entire development teams with families and mortgages and car payments and so on. Besides, nobody is out to buy a Windows coffee mug or an iGuidance t-shirt to support the merchandising aspect of your business model. Productivity & niche software doesn't work that way. Games might, but that's really a different category. Likewise, I don't think anyone would attend a WordPerfect concert or stage show... At least not for money, anyway.
2) Nobody's talking about an all-out crusade to stop piracy. I'm certain that 99% (if not more) of every member on this forum has a bootleg CD or downloaded music files or a pirated game or whatever. Myself included.
However, when a programmer works hard to create a viable product and they decide to commercialize that product, it's illegal to simply download it and enjoy, plain and simple. I know too many code warriors that are struggling to get bills paid.
I also sell software. I know how to circumvent the required licensing for the software my company sells despite the use of a hardware licensing dongle. But I don't do it, and I damn sure ain't showing anyone else how to. Why? It paybs *MY* bills.
Maybe one day when you see bootlegs of your CD for sale on a table in HongKong with the douchebag and his CD burner making fistfuls of cash on YOUR work, you'll change your tune (no pun intended).
3) AS far as a torrent section here, it's not going to happen. The forum's owners run a legitimate business that I'm sure they don't want shut down because someone deiced to share their warez. You want to be a pirate, take your eye patch and parrot to another forum. Personally, I don't want my favorite resource for my money-pit of a hobby to up & vanish because some anti-piracy organization gets wind that someone's trading Streets & Trips or iGuidance, thank you very much.
4) 'Linux' doesn't make millions of dollars. The companies producing distros (Mandrake, Red Hat, etc.) that are selling them on retail shelves and providing support and consulting are. Get your facts straight.
Do you REALLY?I do work for free. I am a musician who heavily supports p2p. Music as a product is the same as every other downloadable product.
Contradiction alert!It has a few different ways it makes money; 1. Product sales (the cd, a software program, a dvd), 2. Concerts, theatre movies, and mass use (like if the product is good enough for someone to want to use many many copies for a business or something) 3. Sponsers, donations, 4. Merchandise 5. a sequal.
I look forward to the moment when you pull your foot out of your mouth far enought o attempt to repond.
Yes I do work for free. And anyone in thailand that wants to sell my music let them, I offer it for free on the internet, so anyone who's buying it just got dooped outta 30 baht. And if you had bothered to read past the quote marks you entered you would see why number 1 doesnt matter. If you have a product you believe is good, and it is, it will get noticed and you will get paid one way or another. You have poor programmer friends? REALLY? I was under the impression that everyone that tries something is successful or good at what they try. Turbocad, you also didn't read everything, cd's and all that are tangiable items and I said I'd be more than happy to pay for them. As far as "rent, programmers salarys, computers, electricity, printing, r&d, advertizing" go, I doubt you start with all of this. If you write a program and it's your first one, I doubt you are jobless, I doubt you have an office with employees and programmers. No. You start off with a job with either a good idea for a program, or you are trying to make some extra cash on the side. You don't write your first program and quit your job, get an office and some employees and some computers, you build up as the business gets more popular. It may have been my fault not getting my point across as comprehendable as it looked in my eyes I don't know what you saw but from what you replied, you just took peices out that look incriminating on their own like "I killed a baby" <<< JOHN SAID THAT, when what he really said was, "I killed a baby dear when we went huntin' yesterday". You guys would make great journalists for FOXNews. If you cannot see that piracy is not getting fixed and is only getting worse then you will fail as a businessman. Accept the inevitable and see how it can be turned around in your favor, that's how business works.
Linus Torvald was not rich before he made linux. He has never sold a copy of linux, but somehow he is magically rich. Amazing huh? Made a great product that has bettered technology because its open source, he gave it away, and he still made tons of money. Imagine that. Red Hat does something slightly different, they do sell the product but it is mainly bought for companies with many computers. They also have amazing tech support. I'd buy it just for the tech support. So in truth the customer is still not paying for the program but for the extras. Keep the responses coming I'm having a blast.
Edit: I'm sure boris wouldn't mind getting his program a little more exposure. Same with frodo. Why not spam some torrents of BSR and Frodoplayer? Maybe someone with a big wallet would like to hire one of them. And I do believe I said "Maybe on a already established torrent site if the owners are worried abuot copyrights and scary lawyers... " so stop talking about mp3car.com torrents.
(What DP said)
So the deciding factor on whether one pays for something or not is its tangibility? How very 20th century!Yes if it a tangiable item then they are selling you something that cost them money.
Using that definition, since I cannot touch or feel my cellphone service, I should not pay for it. I can't touch my DSL service, although I suppose I ought to pay for the modem. I can't touch my satellite TV service, so it ought to be okay for me to take it for free.
Most theoretical physicists don't generate products, therefore we ought not pay them for their work. Neither do doctors, although I guess if they administer medicines, we ought to pay for those.
Airbus builds the A380. The cost of the materials to build that bird -aluminum, carbon fiber, plastic and so forth are only a small portion of the actual cost of manufacturing. Should we only pay them a small amount for the plane? Or should we let them charge the bejesus out of their customers, creating and attractive market for competitors to enter, lowering the cost of aircraft and creating a competitive aircraft industry?metal, glass, plastics all cost money and for the most part that is what you are paying for.
Or alternatively, we can follow your suggestion and force them to give it away for a song, creating word of mouth advertisements and donations from more and more airlines who want them.
As you correctly point out, there are differences between information products and tangible goods. There are, however, similarities as well. Even the hated M$ has to garner programmers, hire them, put software development processes in place, and bang out a copy of PowerPoint. It takes time to do that and time to maintain that develoment cycle. And one thing I.T. has in common with manufacturing is that time = money.
Don't confuse the fact that duplicating bits is costless while creating them is extremely expensive. Ten top notch programmers on your payroll at $160k (with benefits) a year and you've got a $1.6 million dollar revenue requirement right off the bat. Before overhead, distribution, tech support and expenses.
Now, if a starving student comes along and steals the program, uses it for awhile and never passes it along to anyone, well maybe they didn't take a revenue hit because they were never going to make a sale. But that doesn't mean it wasn't stealing.
DP's got you there. You don't work for free. You take a portion of your proceeds from goods and services that you get paid to produce and allocate it towards an unusual form of advertising. I say good for you! That's an innovative way to beat the record companies at their own game and I hope it becomes an overwhelming and undefeatable attack on their greedy empire. Until then, we'll have to *buy* our music from those bastards because I think my favorite performers ought to get paid for their labors in the studio.I do work for free. I am a musician who heavily supports p2p. Music as a product is the same as every other downloadable product.
Originally Posted by Pokiarchy
dude, do you really listen to yourself.... you know damn well that the bit torrents are not for the programs that someone is building in there spare time, with no overhead.... theres tons of freeware out there from up & coming codemonkeys that are there for the taking.... go for it & support your favorites, but bit torents are not for that at all...... you know that.... don't play dumb now....
bit torrents most poular downloads have got to be the expensive programs.... the reason there expensive is because they cost a lot to produce..... if some guy could build something better in there spare time, then these programs wouldn't be able to be priced this way, they wouldn't even need to be priced high..... but they are expensive to produce, it is expensive to stay in competition with other software companys too, & if a software company like adobe (they do have some overhead) goes & pours MANY developers hours from MANY developers & then has a team of pro's go over it & debug it & test & enhance it, then release a product that is good enough for a professional to use as a tool to make a living, why should some guy go throw this up on a website & freely distribute it?????
so you think you should get your copy of adobe photosuite cs for the price of the cd? you want to just steal a program like iguidance, do you have any idea what is involved in developing something like this???, my guess is you really don't care what it cost's to develop it, you just want it & can't afford it, so steal it without thinking twice about it...... & even that's ok for you if you decide to do that, but then to publicly go out & not only endorse, but try to promote this here is just ****ty really I think....
you check my posts & you'll see that I never slam anyone (well, hardly ever anyway).... if I don't have something positive to say, I just click away, rather than start posting negative things.... but your pushing it here....
Manufactoring is another thing I forgot to mention, I apologize. But the idea I'm trying to get through is their is a base cost to distribute a product. If that product doesnt cost much to get to the comsumer, it shouldn't cost the consumer much. You choose a cell phone service because you can talk to people most places at any time, it has a specific cost to get to you. Cell phones, tv and satellite are not good examples because they do not fit in this category. The only things that can be compared without exception is music, programs, and movies. Yes I know that employees and all that hazz cost money. But to put it as simply as I can, they can make the same money without selling the product.
Most of the money goes to the store actually selling the cd, The next biggest hitter is the Record Label. I know it sounds a bit idealogic, but in the near future, the internet will be readily available via wifi in most places. I live in a farm community and i still can leech my connection from just local coffee shops. Mcdonalds is also making all of their restaurants a "hot spot". Record labels will almost be completely obsolete if piracy keep going where it's going. IT may go to the point where if a record label likes your music they will record and advertise for you for a percentage of the profits. But this will make them maybe not obsolete, but unnecessary.
And no DP's did not get me there. Money comes out of my pocket to copy cds for fans, but at a whopping $20 for 100 it's relativly negligable. Have yet to make a shirt and don't get paid often for shows. But if we have a big enough fan base, maybe one day we will get paid for our shows, and maybe some lucky fan will have the tshirt. But until then, just as if I was selling a car "We have to let these people know we put out a quality product before they start throwing money at us." You have to start somewhere.
What keeps programmers motivated? Personal gain. If a person wants a program that has not yet been made yet, let's call this man boris or frodo, they make it themselves, make it open source and publish it along with the program, free of charge. If the program is any good or interesting in any way, someone else will pick it up, make it better and pass it on. It's progress, and it's free. Makes this world a better place, stimulates the economy, and first and foremost, puts microsoft where they belong. It's inevitable, and it's not like it's impossible to make tons of money off of a product. Please keep responding, but someone who agrees would be nice.
Edit: Once again like I said, the same money can be made elsewhere. Please think this over everyone before posting the same stuff again.
Didn't say they were.
"If a person wants a program that has not yet been made yet, let's call this man boris or frodo, they make it themselves, MAKE it open source and publish it along with the program, free of charge"
Edit: One really good example of what I'm talking about. Nero. They don't sell the intial product, they have a basic program they offer for free or package with burners. If you want/need extra options, you pay for a serial, without a valid serial, you can't have updates. They don't make the burners, they sell the RIGHTS to someone who does. No mula, no updates, they have good tech support as well. Most of you live in America I'm assuming. If you live here you should know by now, it's not the product it's the packaging, that is true for just about everything out here. Matrix is wildy overrated, and their are similar movies that are just as good without the wire-fu. But because so much was put into the advertisement, and making the movie look pretty, it easily toppled over Equilibrium and that of the sorts. Try not to get so angry folks, I'm mearly stating my opinion, and it is a radical opinion, but I am entitled to it. I'm not trying to pick a fight, so please stop attacking me. I'm a very friendly person with alot on his mind. I live in a farm community and don't get a chance to speak my mind often so just respond with valid counterpoints and not calling my opinions "****ty". This wasn't intended to be an endorsement turbocad, I just wanted to see if anyone wanted to get together and share some files, then people started attacking my views like I was a stripper or something. Chillax ppl, chillax.