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Thread: Request for a torrent section.

  1. #41
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    Bugbyte's Avatar
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    Okay, fact based, non-attacking discussion. Good. We've had too much personal bashing as of late.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokiarchy
    Manufactoring is another thing I forgot to mention, I apologize. But the idea I'm trying to get through is their is a base cost to distribute a product. If that product doesnt cost much to get to the comsumer, it shouldn't cost the consumer much.
    The cost of manufacturing and distribution of a product is not the basis for pricing. It is a FACTOR in determining the price. iPods armband holders do not cost $39 to produce and distribute. Eyeglass frames do not cost $80 and up to produce. Oil does not cost $60 a barrel to produce.

    You are advancing an argument about what the basis for pricing a product should be rather than what it actually is. That is an opinion that injects policy into a market context.

    Companies price their product at what the market will bear. The supply of the product, the demand for it at various price points and the available substitutes all have a bearing on both the price charged and whether that price goes up or down.

    But to put it as simply as I can, they can make the same money without selling the product.
    Your statement is an assertion. It is sure to be true in some cases, and sure to be untrue in others. The depth and breadth of I.T. services and products is such that sweeping generalizations on this topic are exactly that -sweeping generalizations. The credibility of your assertion suffers as a result.

    Please provide a concrete and supportable example of a royalty free artist who has earned more revenue than, for example, Bono or Bruce Springsteen.

    Most of the money goes to the store actually selling the cd, The next biggest hitter is the Record Label.
    Clearly you have been influenced by Negroponte. I don't disagree with the notion that moving atoms vs. moving bits causes a fundamental shift in the basis of the business model. I don't think anyone here does, either. Nor will you get much argument from me that the record industry is morally bankrupt and ripe for collapse and said collapse will come at the hands of the internet.

    However, the power that record companies hold over artists are more closely related to the record company's control over the traditional distribution and promotion channels. Artists have little choice but to yield to the demands of these companies because they have no legitimate alternative distributions systems.

    Planning nationwide concert tours requires an army of marketing, promotional, production and financial resources. Record companies provide all of these resources and they must do so better than any alternative because artists keep signing with them.

    You are correct that this will change. You are correct that it will do so in a way that will topple record companies. You are correct that it is inevitable. I actually agree with you.

    However, we part company when you translate that to software and claim that it is appropriate and moral for you to take the intellectual labors of programmers and pay the price you believe they are due rather than what they would charge you.

    If you disagree, I challenge you to make a clear and supportable distinction between seizing and paying what you wish for software and seizing and paying what you wish for a manufactured good such as an automobile.

    Please keep responding, but someone who agrees would be nice.
    Perhaps someone will.
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  2. #42
    Low Bitrate Pokiarchy's Avatar
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    Good post bugbyte. I'm going to bed for now but will do some more research and be back at it after work. I love a good argument, where everyones feathers get ruffled. gnight.

  3. #43
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    Actually, I think it's possible that all you guys missed the point of the original post (of course, this may be just me being slow )

    I think what he meant was to have a torrent site w/ all the free software (CF, FrodoPlayer, Road Runner , FreeDrive, NaviVoice, etc....) instead of going to each of the different sites.

    Just to save time...

    Did I completely miss something here or did you guys?

    Peace,

    Rafster

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafster
    Actually, I think it's possible that all you guys missed the point of the original post (of course, this may be just me being slow )

    I think what he meant was to have a torrent site w/ all the free software (CF, FrodoPlayer, Road Runner , FreeDrive, NaviVoice, etc....) instead of going to each of the different sites.

    Just to save time...

    Did I completely miss something here or did you guys?

    Peace,

    Rafster
    I was actually looking at setting up a server in the mp3car irc channel to serve all the free software (Obviously with the owners permission) but a torent site for that stuff would be good too.
    Serving warez and or the torrents for warez linked to this forum would be a bad idea. We don't the the FBI or any other government agency shutting down this site. What would we do then? Talk to the wife?
    Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

  5. #45
    FLAC ShawJohn's Avatar
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    Can you imagine a software developer using the services of bit torrent to let people try out his product before giving a donation? Isn't that what freeware/shareware is for.

    For us to be commonly asscociated with a major source of software piracy like torrents etc will do nothing BUT allienate us from the very companies who's software we rely on.

    Many times in the past VeetID/David has said that CF will be cheaper/free for those of us who helped develope/bug test it. If there is a subforum where people can share torrent links is David likely to give anyone a copy without charge?

    Some software is extremely time intensive during development like AutoCAD, the full version of that is 5000+
    How can you ever expect it to be free! Cheaper maybe, but free

    Oh and if Linus Torvalt is that rich and never sold a linux distro then where did his money come from?!? By selling other stuff he's done - Money doesn't grow on trees

    Plane and simple fact is that torrents are illegally distributing software, and the owners of this forum have made it quite clear that they cannot allow illegal content on this forum as it would jepodise the future of the business they rely on to make a living!

    GET OVER IT and stop preaching business techniques to us lot. This is a hobbyist website, not a commercial coders hideout! This site was started to assist people in creating in-car telematics & entertainment systems - NOT to help people source illegal software

    - I CAN'T SEE THERE BEEING A TORRENT FORUM ON HERE IN FORSEEABLE FUTURE


    Start you own website with torrent related content if you wish, and do it for free - Oh and don't forget to post a link

  6. #46
    Super Moderator. If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving.... turbocad6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafster
    Actually, I think it's possible that all you guys missed the point of the original post (of course, this may be just me being slow )

    I think what he meant was to have a torrent site w/ all the free software (CF, FrodoPlayer, Road Runner , FreeDrive, NaviVoice, etc....) instead of going to each of the different sites.

    Just to save time...

    Did I completely miss something here or did you guys?

    Peace,

    Rafster

    the first post talks about copy right protection, scary lawyers & pirate sites, and knowing this won't be approved....... what did you miss?

  7. #47
    Low Bitrate Pokiarchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawJohn

    Oh and if Linus Torvalt is that rich and never sold a linux distro then where did his money come from?!? By selling other stuff he's done - Money doesn't grow on trees
    I left a link that says where he got his money dude. I'm tired of repeating my self. I already said, fine, no torrents.

    BitTorrent is not only associated with piracy fellas. Windows vista will probably use BitTorrent for updates and of the like. Linux distributes alot of its distros through BitTorrent. Just cause it's file sharing, doesn't mean it's illegal.

    If somone would like me to help them ditribute their freeware, please let me know and I would be happy to help.

    This is what happened to this thread.
    I mentioned p2p.
    everyone misses the point and gets angry that p2p is thieves robbers and pirates.
    It may not be legal, but they can't stop it and they know when to roll with the punches.
    I get some good responses, some repetative responses.
    And at this point right now, all that's left to this thread is a response to bugbytes last comment, and possibly discussing with the freeware developers on this site, a way to make it easier for everyone to get their programs.
    Nothing illegal mentioned in that last sentance right? Good. Then we can move on.
    FOR ANYONE THAT DIDNT READ MY POST I SUMMED IT UP HERE SO PEOPLE DON'T REPEAT THEMSELVES. DOWNLOADING COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL AT THIS POINT IN TIME IS ILLEGAL, AND THE PEOPLE THAT SEVERELY ABUSE THIS SHOULD BE PUNISHED, BUT NOTHING SERIOUS LIKE JAIL TIME. BUT IT WILL BE LEGAL AND BUSINESS WILL HAVE TO CHANGE. NOW LETS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. ANY PROGRAMMERS WANT ME TO HELP SPAM THEIR SOFTWARE? There, nice and big for the people who skim and post.

  8. #48
    Maximum Bitrate zPilott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokiarchy
    Your right it is not my day job. I do not create a product for my day job so it does not apply to this conversation though... hehe and its embarassing.
    I dunno, by your argument, if you don't produce anything, then you shouldn't be getting paid.

    Your original post was obviously about trading software that you do not have a legal right to.

    I do think that a torrent server for all the FREE software would be a good idea. A list of torrents that the program author/owner opts in to. It could also be a place (with permission of course) to distribute shareware/demo programs. I can't speak for him, but Frodo does (I assume) have to pay for the bandwidth for every person that downloads his software. If the majority of the people who used it, was also sharing a torrent of it, each of those people would be making, in effect, a micro donation to help keep Frodoplayer alive. Of course, he may be subsidizing it with advertisements, so he may have reasons for driving traffic to his site.

    It would probably be more trouble than it is worth, but having a torrent host, with only software that has explicit permission from the author/copyright holder would probably be a big help to the community. The user base is so small that it doesn't really matter, but I would be first in line to offer up my software. Pokiarchy, maybe you could even put up some of your music (assuming that you are the sold owner) to share with other members.

    While it is true that the vast majority of torrents (and every torrent site i have ever heard of) are used to enable piracy, torrents can and do have a legal and legitimate use, that could be of benefit to the mp3car community.

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  9. #49
    FLAC ShawJohn's Avatar
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    I was a bit harsh last night. I was caught up by the bad mood bug Sorry Folks

    How can it be policed to keep it within the rules though as anyone can create and seed a torrent file

    Maybe a downloads section in a members only area of the forum would be easier to set up and administer? Even if it just contained links to external sites/ftp's ?!?

  10. #50
    Low Bitrate Pokiarchy's Avatar
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    zpilott, I am a worker, therefore i help with the products that have been produced.
    Yes my first post pertained to sharing ALL files that would be helpful for carputers, even the illegal ones, but even the legal ones. We've dumped the illegal ones and I think zpilott hit the nail on the head. A section for members only to submit their own work, if you download it, you seed it to keep it going.
    If anyone is still bitter about my opinions, keep in mind they are my opinions and you are aloud to dissagree, thats what makes arguments fun.
    The best thing about torrents as far as this site and the programs developers, is it does not take any bandwidth or even a website to share them with people. So frodo could save money on bandwidth, and could package his software with plenty of advertisements included in the bundle.
    It is still solely up to the mods though, and if they say no, then nothing on the forums. But if the programmers think it's a good idea, then anyone can get a free vbulletin and set this up.

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