How Long Until Software Dev Forum Closes ?

[ccsnet]

Since when did I become a mod!

Still a Newbie

must be the old newbie in town.

Dont be difficult... you know what I mean...

Terran

[gnomad]

Yes it has unfortuntly... to my self, gobby, 2fast and scouse etc..

Have any of you actually used StreetDeck? If not, you can't very well give it a bad review, and if you can't give it a bad review, you can't have a bad review deleted. It sounds to me as if you are debating the legitimacy of the StreetDeck Forums, and that is certainly not the place to discuss such issues, and why the posts got deleted.

Please feel free to discuss these issues in Suggestions/Comments and your posts will not get deleted.

Use the MP3car brand but keep the forums indipendant ( that is not the same as seprate ) or you risk harming both and alienating lots of people.

Again, no arguement from me here. My personal recomendation was to keep MP3Car focused on the hobbyist market through the forums and the store which sells almost exclusively to the hobbyist market. StreetDeck was never intended to compete with this market, and there is simply nothing to be gained (although much lost) by shoehorning it in here.

It is a big issue? I'm not really sure. But I will tell you this: Posts of this nature on the StreetDeck forums will get deleted. Posts to Suggestions/Comments won't get deleted (keeping in mind standard rules for decorum) but won't necessarily reach the apropriate people. The people you want to contact with your opinions are the ones on this page:

http://streetdeck.com/management.php

-g.

[roadhog]

Well said.
I for one can't argue with anything you have written above.

Refreshing indeed to hear some common sense from your side of the server on this.

[ACHIEVER]

Again, no argument from me here. My personal recommendation was to keep MP3Car focused on the hobbyist market through the forums and the store which sells almost exclusively to the hobbyist market. StreetDeck was never intended to compete with this market, and there is simply nothing to be gained (although much lost) by shoehorning it in here.

-g.

I've always thought of you as an intelligent guy, but that has to be the smartest thing you've said to date.

[ccsnet]

Well said.
I for one can't argue with anything you have written above.

Refreshing indeed to hear some common sense from your side of the server on this.

I echo that... and yes you are right it was around the forums issue in part ... although there have been one or two around the approach of certain things like ask developers to donate free code and still charge them for the dev version and the fact that it was a beta unsupported version for sale which I think are quite valid where they were how ever the reason you mention and the fact that posts where been deleted where one of the main reasons I created its own thred... unfortunatly that attracts more attention to the issues at hand.

Still - it would be good to hear from Admins like your self and find a way to make both parties happy - so far our comments and suggestions have.... and ignore is too strong a word here.... been put to one side and tried to be forgoten about may be ?

Terran

[rcdash]

Just because something is open source doesn't give you the right to do anything you want with it at all! The point of a lot of open source projects is that you are supposed to contribute your ideas to the project to make a better product for everyone, not that you should rip off the code, make your own commercial copy and sell it!

My personal opinion is that its all very well for mp3car to take everyone's ideas and put them in a finished product but they don't seem to be giving anything back and that will stifle development and we will end up not progressing as quickly as we might otherwise. There are reasons why super-do-everything programs fail and end up either never coming out or doing everything poorly. People are good at their own areas and have their own preferences which is why the plugins system tends to work best. I think they will have a hard time making streetdeck beat these problems.

Aside from the pros and cons of streetdeck...

The whole point of this thread seems to have been missed by several people, including rcdash. The point is not that mp3car shouldnt promote streetdeck but that they already remove unfavourable posts rather than just offensive ones from all over the forum, not just the street deck threads.

Mp3car has in the past been a place where we could openly discuss our opinions and say something like 'I prefer x software over streetdeck because...' but now those sorts of posts are being censored. It doesnt make good business to have free competing software in the same forum but at the same time they want to keep the userbase who want free discussion. It is a huge conflict of interest which could be managed well but the balance seems to be tipping against free discussion. That is all we are worried about.

It is funny that it seems to be the Brits who mainly see this when it's Americans who value their free speech the most.

Ok, well maybe we are all missing the point. Or not?

The point to get across here is that certain people "own" mp3car.com and streetdeck. They make the rules. The rules can change. Whether any of us like it or not. Granted it would seem that it would be in everyone's best interest to be able to openly discuss topics.

If you don't like something that has happened then you have two options:

1. try to change it so it doesn't happen in the future

2. use a different forum

I think many would prefer option 1, but I would submit that complaining without rational arguments isn't going to get the job done.

So far, the only negative posts that I have read about StreetDeck are personal complaints from people that really have nothing to complain about other than not getting StreetDeck for free. Oh and complaints about those complaints being deleted. Oh well!

And the developers of StreetDeck are giving something back - they are offering you a far superior product! If you don't like the price for what you get, well the open source ones are still here. So there really is nothing to complain about (except the complaints being deleted of course)?

[rcdash]

Have any of you actually used StreetDeck? If not, you can't very well give it a bad review, and if you can't give it a bad review, you can't have a bad review deleted. It sounds to me as if you are debating the legitimacy of the StreetDeck Forums, and that is certainly not the place to discuss such issues, and why the posts got deleted.

Please feel free to discuss these issues in Suggestions/Comments and your posts will not get deleted.



Again, no arguement from me here. My personal recomendation was to keep MP3Car focused on the hobbyist market through the forums and the store which sells almost exclusively to the hobbyist market. StreetDeck was never intended to compete with this market, and there is simply nothing to be gained (although much lost) by shoehorning it in here.

It is a big issue? I'm not really sure. But I will tell you this: Posts of this nature on the StreetDeck forums will get deleted. Posts to Suggestions/Comments won't get deleted (keeping in mind standard rules for decorum) but won't necessarily reach the apropriate people. The people you want to contact with your opinions are the ones on this page:

http://streetdeck.com/management.php

-g.

Good suggestions and post!

I do think mp3car has a lot to gain though. They've got a super product that represents a glimpse into the future of car AV electronics. Why be stuck with a limited hobbyist/techie market?

I do wish it was more affordable so everyone and anyone could enjoy it. I hope that as they recover R&D costs and build up a user base and infrastructure, the cost will come down. The NAV option alone for new cars (well at least mine) was $2000. So the current price point at least beats that.

[d2.n]

It has been mentioned in other threads, but apparently there hasnt been too much interest, but ill throw it out again: we need a Wiki.

a wiki would be owned by no one, is a more useful format than large threads, and would be an excellant complement or replacement to the FAQ emporium.
It would deal with the two largest criticisms of mp3car, the endless repeat questions and apparent commercial conflicts.

wiki. max need.

[god_of_cpu]

although there have been one or two around the approach of certain things like ask developers to donate free code and still charge them for the dev version and the fact that it was a beta unsupported version for sale which I think are quite valid where they were how ever the reason you mention and the fact that posts where been deleted where one of the main reasons I created its own thred...

Our approach is and always was to be to give away StreetDeck to all those that donated any code or made a contribution to us and is what we have already done in a number of cases. Identifying contributors who actually help us is a very difficult thing to do on large scale like this forum and one way for us to do this is simply to pass on requests from other users of some feature that seem good, but not quite important enough for us to divert our resources to. The posts I deleted were complaints about how this is a bad practice since we charge other people for StreetDeck and were deleted simply because they were not contributing to the topic of the thread and should have been made in this sub forum instead. Yes, it is beneficial for us to have other people contribute to StreetDeck, which is why we want to try and give something back, but it was never our intention to directly make money off of free contributions, it was never our intention to distribute them with the core product, and it was never our intention to charge contributors for helping us. I'm sorry if the opposite was what was percieved by any statements made. We get a number of requests everyday for features we should add to StreetDeck and unfortunatly most sound like great additions, but they just don't make buisness sense for us to devote resources to. This is why we created the developer edition. We haven't yet figured out how best to sell the developer edition, since we share your concern about being able to distribute it free to those people who will actually develop on it and only turning a profit on the people who want to benefit solely from using StreetDeck in thier car.

The BETA notice is clearly marked in the store. If you have a problem with the terms of the BETA products, please simply don't buy it.

[rcdash]

You're being very courteous - kudos to maintaining your composure amongst the few skeptics and their complaints.

All developers pay for commercial development tools. I really don't think you should have to worry about making it free. It should make business sense. All the open source fanatics forget that someone has to pay to get the development work done! (and someone ultimately does foot the bill, be it the developer or the end user)

A few people are going to complain about it. Everybody likes lower costs! I just want to make sure you stay in business because this thing you made is addicting - it's an awesome system that has no competitors right now and I cannot see any future car I own *not* having this or something like it.