and what I said.
This is a serious question btw to the mods.
First of all let me say ( as I have done privatly to the admin team ) MP3car has its place in the intenational community BUT I feel there may be some conflicts about to arise in your neutralaty of running this forum.
Its OK to attach a shop which sells items you can get else where - I have no issue in this... what I am really concerned about is the fact you are now pushing your own products both hardware and more worringly software ( and I wont go in to its cost and beta status ).
This in my opinion will create a direct conflict with the existing software projects within the Software & Software Development forum which IMHO do have far better offerings. This is some thing I even said to God of CPU on http://www.digital-car.co.uk when he visted recently.
My point is these projects effectivly give the community software helped created by in some cases the community and supported by the community.
Now forgeting the fact that there is currently no support for Streetdeck or connectivty to decent nav packages, no thought for out side of the USA etc ( and I take my hat off to GodofCPU for creating it - no one can take that way from him ) its been pushed on the very same forum.
I mean it stands to reason.. if some one can get another product that does the same and in some cases more, is better supported even if its by the commmunity, and it costs less then your not going to turn a profit which is what Selling Streetdeck is about. What about those that are charged for such as Phonecontrol which Streetdeck will also replicate ? Again a more direct comercial conflict.
So my question is... How Long Until Software Dev Forum Closes due to this conflict or are you going to take some remedial action ?
Further more is it possible to identify those people who are staff or involved in MP3car commercial project via their custom title... I had no idea who he was at first... I think it would be much clearer for those talking to each other exactly where they are coming from.... especially when Joe Bloggs is looking for help.
IMHO... as I say these are talking points and not digs.
Thinking . . . . . . . .
Hmmm, conflict of interest, ccsnet, why are you a member of mp3car and making posts while advertising for a directly competing forum? In any case, we still love and miss you ccsnet and wish you would spend more of your time with us
In any case, if we were going to close the software development forums it would have been done a long time ago. We are not going to do that, we don't see any point to that. The software forum will never close. This is a public forum and will always be that way. StreetDeck is actually trying to be a separate entity from Mp3car and as time goes on, the two ventures will become more and more separate.
How are we pushing our own products? We have never compared StreetDeck to any of the other offerings. There are a ton of posts on here about competitors products and some of the mistakes we made in the past. Our solution has always been to address the issues, not censor them. The one and only thing we have done for StreetDeck is give it a more prominent place in the forums. We thought about making a separate forum on the StreetDeck.com site, but that makes even less sense when we have all the other commercial products with a home base on mp3car. We like to also stay connected with what is going on with other software packages and there is no better way for us to do this then to host the forums for them. We also talk to the other developers and would love to have them work with StreetDeck and pay them for thier time or find other ways of working together that can be mutually beneficial. Most of the post administration is done by more or less regular members who we have given admin power. We make some posts about our products, but for the most part try to leave it up to you guys to decide what is and is not appropriate.
You are right, regardless of how good our software is we will probably never be able to make a profit from the mp3car communtity alone. You said it, there are other free alternatives and to the average mp3car user who is more then capable of doing a full carputer install and figuring out the software issues on his own, trying to sell him/her software services and support doesn't make sense to us. What we are trying to do with StreetDeck is sell to and support the average consumer in a way that will bring car computing to the masses. We would love it if we could make the mp3car communty happy too with StreetDeck and will go out of our way to do this. We know we have a whole lot to gain from you guys in development experience and knowledge and is why we will be releasing the developer edition and aiming it at the average mp3car user and find a way to give it a price point and distribution model that will hopefully make you guys happy. We would like nothing more then to have mp3car users write plugins and skins and give the profit to you selling them to the average StreetDeck user who can't do it on thier own and we want to give you the tools you need to do this. I know alot of you see the commercialization of car computers as taking something away from the eliteness of it, I won't disagree with that, but just think how great it would be if everyone had a computer in thier car running on an easy to install and extensible platform. Now all the work you do in customizing your car can be appealing in a directly practical way to the rest of the world. As a computer expert, you'll always be able to do more with a car computer, but I would love it if someday I could help my friends or family out by giving them a solution they would be able to put in thier own car to solve a specific problem and we want to make StreetDeck the enabling platform that allows other developers easily do the same thing for thier friends / family / customers.
Where did you get the idea there is no support? Support is merely limited to certain issues right now. We said we don't yet support any other platform then our own and because of the BETA status of the software, there may be things that don't work as expected on our own hardware right now, but will definitly be fixed in the near future. The only thing we won't support in the future with StreetDeck as a software only product is platform specific issues. We will garuntee that StreetDeck will run with the hardware we sell. However, when we sell it standalone as software, if you put it on an AMD geode based motherboard and it doesn't run since there is no Direct 3D support, don't expect us to do anything, but if you find a bug that effects the core product, like restarting instead of hibernating when the hibernate command is issued, then we will fix it regardless of how you got your hands on the product. Unlike the free software on this forum, we have a commercial interest to make sure it isn't broken. Anyone remember mediacar? Frodo, missing you much. Writing code is fun, but maintainence sucks. I know I wouldn't want to give up all my free time to support a free product years after its release and still have to work a day job to pay the bills. StreetDeck is my day job. As long as software keeps selling, it will be supported by someone.
Streetdeck already has built in navigation. There is support for all of the US, Canada, and Mexico and with the final release there will be support for most of Europe. Seriously, we haven't forgotten about you fellas on the other side of the pond and will make StreetDeck available over there too. We have also been planning out the future of mapping support and have plans for getting support in for many other countries. Unfortunatly, we have gone to certain lengths to make sure you can't run any other desktop programs while you are driving for safety and usability reasons and this does limit our ability to support external programs in the way that the other free packages do, but will help us get certified by various governments once we get everything up to spec in the final release version.
Obviously, we do have a commercial interest. There is money to be made from computers in cars and its only a matter of time before a very large corporation gets involved and if that happens before mp3car is a household name, they will easily become a bigger car computer community and will not care nearly as much about the car computer roots. We at mp3car understand the value of open and uncensored forums and will always keep it that way and yes we will try to make money off of supporting the mp3car community, but this is good because as long as we can support ourselves, we can keep the forums up and running smoothly.
Most of the concerns mentioned here seem to be about what ifs, not what we actually do now. We already use mp3car as a commerical venture, we know how to make money off it and how things are now is how we will continue to do things. StreetDeck.com is StreetDeck.com and not mp3car.com/StreetDeck for this reason. We don't see more value in further advertising and we do put alot of thought into how not to pollute the forums with the ways we make money. If you have any comments of how what we already do now hurts the community, not so much how it potentially could, we would love to hear from you and try to improve.
As to who works for mp3car, I think most of us already do now have icons. I just recently became an employee under StreetDeck.com and switch my icon when I did. I use to be just a regular mp3car user and then supplier to mp3car and have been working in some way or other with the founders for some time. We are in a transition phase of who works for what now, but we will try and get more appopriate labels as we figure this out ourselves.
I've been a board lurker so to speak more than a contributor and I too am a developer. Your response was very professional and well thought out. It leaves only one thought from a dev stand point. I myself would be afraid of collaborating on new and exciting programs only to find it embedded in streetdeck. Now, I suppose...any commercial company could scan any forum for ideas and trade secrets but at the moment "conflict of interest" still seems to be the issue. I could invest hours and 1000's of lines in collaboration using these forums and when I want to come back to reference it, you could (mp3car) could take it down and have 100% copy and patends.
I guess the question really falls on the users (developers) in these forums. Do you want to continue sharing your ideas with the knowledge that intellectual property ownership lies with mp3car/streetdeck? Just thoughts.
I never saw it as a competing forum. For me it complements it nicely by being a place where we can talk about UK meets, issues that are uk specific and talk about suppliers in the uk which is vital as a lot of stuff seems to be a harder to get hold of here than in the US (Why that is banned on here when it is hugely impractical to import from the US, I don't know?). MP3car is excellent for more general technical stuff though.Originally Posted by god_of_cpu
Well if you had done that then everyone would move to a different forum and you'd have no customers! You would sneakily do it while all the time saying that you had no intention of doing it. So you can see why people seeing the trend in commercialisation might be worried.In any case, if we were going to close the software development forums it would have been done a long time ago. We are not going to do that, we don't see any point to that. The software forum will never close. This is a public forum and will always be that way. StreetDeck is actually trying to be a separate entity from Mp3car and as time goes on, the two ventures will become more and more separate.
Tipastar raises an interesting point. As well as what he mentioned how are you going to decide what software has a place on mp3car? Are you going to allow all products or are you going to ban other commercial products, and if that is the case then where will you draw the line between what is simply covering dev costs and what is fully commercial?
Thinking . . . . . . .