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Thread: Forcing Newbies to search

  1. #11
    FLAC sama's Avatar
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    ban is a bit extreme! especially for people who do not fully understand english. I know a guy that communicated on here purely by using a translator! quite amazing really.

    I think what tj is saying would be great, the answer defintely lies in changing the existing posting process a little.

  2. #12
    Variable Bitrate MC_Stoo's Avatar
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    I've always thought that if you have nothing constructive to say in answer to a noob question, don't say anything at all

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  3. #13
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    Guys my suggestion wasent totally blind. My last website had this problem.... it was burning my moderators out completely and it was even making me want to ban some of them. I couldent believe I was considering banning some of my moderators! That's absurd! In any good forum the mods are the backbone of it. They were just burning out.

    Im telling you after about a month of consistant replies such as my example you will get noobs asking questions like this:

    Code:
    Okay I searched for THIS and THIS and I found THIS
    and I did THIS but I still get THIS problem.
    
    HELP!
    Thats what you want isent it?

    Trust this Noob .... if EVERYONE in authority here follows that format you will make it savvy to search first!

    But to work its going to have to get in place. When a noob comes and sees many questions that have been asked .. answered in this format ... hes going to comply .....

    @DarquePervert
    As for the sheer idiots who dont listen to a thousand people there is nothing you can do except pay them less emotional attention... flat out ignore them .. until they get ****ed and ask why nobody is answering and then tell them the truth "We do answer but you dont listen". Of course I dunno if you can get away with that for paying clients. At $90 an hour you may just have to learn to enjoy repeating yourself!

  4. #14
    Self proclaimed spoon feeder TruckinMP3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draxx View Post
    SNIP


    Hi,
    I searched for your question by using these terms:

    Search term: I ASKED SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES

    and I found a thread that may include the answer:

    Answer: Link to thread that discusses the answer.

    [/code]
    This does 3 things.

    1. Introduces the idea of searching for an answer without bashing someone
    2. Shows how to search by example for those who are intimidated by the concept
    3. Gives the answer for those whos brains are too tired from being taught how to search (as well as demonstrates the rewards of searching)

    Only after a long period of this consistant activity are you going to train us noobs to ascend ..... We are very young you must remember and the very young often do not do as they are told ......

    <THANKS TO STARGATE FOR THE ANOLOGY>

    Good idea... been done, no results. But thanks for the attempt.
    TruckinMP3
    D201GLY2, DC-DC power, 3.5 inch SATA

    Yes, you should search... and Yes, It has been covered before!

    Read the FAQ!

  5. #15
    Newbie Montanya's Avatar
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    My only issue with the newbie thing is that, well I am a noobie. I am not totally ignorant to the search feature. Sometimes I will search for something and find a post that is from like 2003.. Is that answer still valid? Do I want to work out my whole carpc install only to find that the 2003 answer was outdated 2 days after it posted and there is now a new updated solution to that problem. My thing is I agree with the people that said "if you have nothing constructive to say other than, SEARCH NOOB" then plz just dont reply.

    If you know there is a current thread that has the answer and you want to say "Hey that is all explained here. <link>" That is helpful and appreciated.

    Be kind to the noobs to his hobbie, you were all there at one point.

    Monty

  6. #16
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    Thanks DP.

    The belief that saying "search" is not helpfull is incorrect. In essence, it is pointing someone to the manual, and saying, look at the index, and find your issue.

    While I understand that nowadays people expect a quick answer to thier problem, and they want it with the least amount of effort, the people on this board do not work for you, and are not here for your personal tech support. While the site might sell equipment, the posters must realize that A. Tech support is a phone call away, and B. just like many other companies, this site is a large repository of informaion, FAQs if you will. You have to find and read it. I suggest reading from the newest to the oldest. Are some of the threads pages long, yeap. Read them backwards, that is what I do. Look for the guy who said, Hey, that worked, and see what he is refering to.

    I understand that there are two trains of thought when it comes to education. Most people go through life being tought information. That is how grade school and highschool works. But, when you get to college, that generally changes somewhat. You are required to read 100's of pages of information, and learn them yourself. Anything that doesn't make sense, then you ask your professor. In law school, they teach with the Socratic Method.

    From the wiki
    "Law school

    ..... Sometimes, the class ends with a quick discussion of doctrinal foundations (legal rules) to anchor the students in contemporary legal understanding of an issue. In other classes the class simply ends and students are forced to figure out for themselves the legal rules or principles that were at issue. For this method to work, the students are expected to be prepared for class in advance by reading the assigned materials (case opinions, notes, law review articles, etc.) and by familiarizing themselves with the general outlines of the subject matter."

    In essence, the Socratic method forces the student to read, and attempt to understand, and form opinions and beliefs, and then under questioning, either defend or disprove the belief. The professor DOES NOT TEACH ANYTHING. You teach yourself.

    I believe that the forums should be quite similar. Read the information, and gain the knowledge. If there is a problem, a concept which you don't understand, then certainly, there are people here to answer and help. but to expect someone to say, Oh, simple, answer is X, does nothing. Even saying, the answer is on page 7, does nothing because in the future, the person will just ask another basic question, expecting someone to answer it is on page 10. Trust me, in law school, I learnt really fast that the only way to be prepared for class and for the exam, was to read, read, and re read. The new people in this "hobby" need the same guidance. If you never teach them to be self sufficient, they never will be.

    If people consider it noob bashing, so be it. Let them be the "nice" people on the board. Let them post in each thread with the information they think will help the OP. I certainy won't sit there and argue with them about whether it is a good idea or a bad idea. They can do what they want.

    This isn't kindergarten. This is real life, people say things that are not nice all the time. It is perception that makes them not nice. Is it not nice that my mom doesn't still feed me with a babyspoon, perhaps. Is it the right thing for her to make me independant, for sure. If some nice people want to spoonfeed, by all means, enjoy. I still think my form of "education" is the more appropriate form.

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  7. #17
    Maximum Bitrate yrean's Avatar
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    I love how people say you were noob at one point too!!!.

    No really I wasnt.

    Not just because i have a degree in computers and an engineering background. I learned how to pick up a manual long ago. the differnece is, before I bother anybody for anything, I try to find the answers on my own. Not specifically limited to this forum. If there is something I dont comprehend, Im not limited to the search from just this forum either. There are places like yahoo, google, ask etc that can also be searched. just because this is a forum for putting a pc in your car, its really no different then any pc, except for the application in which its being used.

    I dont mind helping people find the information there looking for, but it would be nice if they just tried to find the answer first. its not every noob that does it but just look thru some of the posts in there that scream Help me do this, I want it now but i didnt bother to give a **** to figure it out.

    not all noobs are really noobs, in my book the only real noobs, are the ones that dont try and want someone to do it for them.
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  8. #18
    Raw Wave tj!2k4's Avatar
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  9. #19
    Maximum Bitrate P3rv3rt B3ar's Avatar
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    I have to disagree... what he said made no sense at all... i ask stuff many times even i know answer... just because theres not always just 1 answer... and somebody might come up with better idea which u might have overlooked. Its not stupid to ASK, it is stupid to ANSWER when u have nothing wortwhile to say.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by P3rv3rt B3ar View Post
    I have to disagree... what he said made no sense at all... i ask stuff many times even i know answer... just because theres not always just 1 answer... and somebody might come up with better idea which u might have overlooked. Its not stupid to ASK, it is stupid to ANSWER when u have nothing wortwhile to say.
    I guess that would depend on your definition of "worthwhile" Is it worthwhile to say, "the answer is ...." How about "You can find it here...." Why do you think "the answer is here, you just have to use the search command to find it" is not worthwhile? I think it is worthwhile. It answers the questioner by saying "look there". If someone has a "better" or "alternate" answer, then they are certainly welcome to chime in.

    In fact, if the OP said, well, I am doing so and so in order to accomplish X, is there something else or another way to do that, I think few people would tell him to search or "bash" him. However, that is not what is being asked or stated when the OP gets the .

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

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