Planning a new system

**kshots** · 03-29-2007, 01:37 PM

Hello all,

I'm thinking of starting up with a new system.

I will be writing my own software (open source) for the most part under linux. I will use evilWM for the front-end (window manager), qt4 for the display functions (graphics library to code with... also happens to work under windows). I intend to do the following with it:

A custom GPS application (with 3D enhancements) - will write from scratch, do not anticipate many difficulties (beyond purchasing the NMEA standard documentation and a few maps)

3D menus - also custom from scratch

wifi - built into the OS, will use what's already there

cell phone - possibly. Completely depends on currently available software

voice activation - possibly - Completely depends on currently available software

I am currently targetting the following hardware:

Display/Input: Xenarc 700IDT (mounted in 1-DIN dash slot)
Mainboard: EPIA M10000
Case: Casetronic C134 (mounted in 1-DIN dash slot)
Memory: 1GB DDR Ultra Low Profile
Hard Disk: Either an 8G USB Stick or a 2G industrial compact flash IDE module. I suspect with Windows not being used, either is a valid option... though the limited writes make me cringe... maybe do RAMFS?
Power: 90W M1-ATX
CD-ROM: Panasonic Slot-Loading CD-RW/DVD Combo (IDE)
AM/FM Tuner: Some sort of USB solution. Must be compatible with linux, probably via the v4l API.
Operating System: Either DSL (Damn Small Linux) or Gentoo Linux. I am well versed in linux in general and am not afraid of any aspect of it.

I've worked with the M-10000 previously as a gentoo mythtv home theater system (actually, in the exact same chassis, too). My only problem there was I wanted to strangle whoever designed the super-bright blue power LED that blinds the audience while they watch movies. 3 layers of duct-tape dimmed the light enough to not bother anyone, though.

Can anyone spot anything seriously screwed up in this? I'll probably commit to ordering parts within the month.

I know that I can free up 1 DIN worth of space by removing my current stereo... and possibly (I'll have to double check) removing a pocket covering another DIN. Otherwise, I may have to consider some other alternatives, as I want both the display and the DVD-ROM / USB slots to be easily accessible at all times.

EDIT: Also, I am looking for a good GPS - preferably something that works off of a serial (TTY) connection. This could be RS-232 or USB. It would also need to accept an external antennae. A published ICD would be nice, but I can work with the NMEA standard if I must (just adds ~$100 to the price to buy the documentation). I was looking to hook this up to a roof-mounted low-profile antennae (the one sold on this site).

I'm also aware of some of the negatives associated with an in-dash display... but the way I look at it, if it (a) doesn't hide or (b) isn't easily accessible, it's useless because (a) it gets stolen, and (b) I can't get to it anyways. I'm open to other suggestions, as I'm not particularly fond of the issues that the current in-dash models bring up, but they look like my best choice atm.

**kshots** · 04-04-2007, 09:47 AM

Well, I took another look at my options, and I'll end up changing some things.

1. Instead of mounting the machine itself into a DIN-slot, I'll have to integrate it into the interior of the dash somewhere. However, my particular model vehicle (2001 Ford Taurus) offers a 1-DIN adapter that also has a slot for a slim drive of some sort - I think I'll see if I can shove a DVD-ROM in there. Basically, the idea is that once the machine is placed and correctly wired, I won't have to screw around with it again... so I'm willing to live with a pain-in-the-arse level of access to the machine itself.

2. Due to this suddenly relaxed space requirement, I may well go for a dual-core solution with some sort of 3D video card (maybe an old GeForce4 or something - anything's better than an S3 of any kind).

3. Reading more about flash, I think I'll run the flash drive in read-only mode, running the OS from a RAM drive. I should be able to keep the /usr partition on flash rather than RAM (as nothing should write there), which would save a large amount of RAM...

**DodgeCummins** · 04-05-2007, 10:57 PM

So you want a dual core computer and a 8G drive?

What exactly were you planning on doing with this computer?

With more CPU power comes more heat to get rid of, and a larger energy requirement...where will you get the power?

You can see what I am running...and can run the GPS and music etc all simultaneously.

Other than that...there is a place on this message board for Software development, front ends, etc...

**2k1Toaster** · 04-06-2007, 12:04 AM

8Gb completely defeats the purpose in my mind of a CarPC. With 1 DVD, you can store all the mp3's you can on a 8Gb drive. And with 2Gb of map data for GPS, you leave yourself very little room. I previously had over 200Gb, then 300Gb, and soon I will have 360Gb.

HD's are cheap, and you lose nothing by adding one.

Also the M2-ATX is only a couple bucks more with 160W output which you will need for a duo core.

**kshots** · 04-06-2007, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by DodgeCummins

So you want a dual core computer and a 8G drive?

What exactly were you planning on doing with this computer?

That's the current plan, though honestly I'd just like something in-between. I'd seen the performance of an M10000 in a home-theater PC solution I built a while back. While it plays media back just fine and has extremely low power requirements, any 3D activity whatsoever is... well... horrible (if it even shows on-screen). I'd be willing to use such a solution if I could find a halfway decent nVidia PCI card to plug into it (GeForce of some sort, probably even an old GeForce 2).

Originally Posted by DodgeCummins

With more CPU power comes more heat to get rid of, and a larger energy requirement...where will you get the power?

I figured I'd also have to up the power supply. Honestly, the jump to the Core Duo was just a gut reaction from having the space requirement lifted. The CPU power is not that important to me

Originally Posted by DodgeCummins

Other than that...there is a place on this message board for Software development, front ends, etc...

Indeed - I moved that part of the discussion over there. I'd just like to talk about my hardware plans on this thread.

Originally Posted by 2k1Toaster

8Gb completely defeats the purpose in my mind of a CarPC. With 1 DVD, you can store all the mp3's you can on a 8Gb drive. And with 2Gb of map data for GPS, you leave yourself very little room. I previously had over 200Gb, then 300Gb, and soon I will have 360Gb.

HD's are cheap, and you lose nothing by adding one.

It really depends on what you're using it for. Personally, I don't hoard up MP3s, and find that 8G should be plenty of room (perhaps with a DVD to hold whatever audio I may care for). I also firmly believe that solid state is the way to go for a carpc. While I could conceivably get away with using a cheap hard drive and then making frequent backups to cover the eventuality of losing the hard drive to vibration, I'd rather not deal with that.

I would also have the option of putting the OS on DVD and not using a hard drive at all... but that would mean:

1. Slow cold start
2. Update to the system = new DVD

Also, why would map data take more than 2G? You'd have your streets database and your graphical maps... I can't see it taking up that much space unless I wanted a much much larger area.

Another reason for the small space is that I could use the extra motivation to build a sleek, slim system. As it stands, I'll be using a custom version of linux that only has what I need installed. In terms of the base OS, I expect that will fit on a 32M partition. When I start adding X.org components, that will increase a bit, but certainly shouldn't reach the 1G mark. That should (theoretically) leave plenty of room for media and maps.

Thanks for the responses so far - I appreciate the criticism. If I'm not thinking this through clearly, I need to be hit in the head with a shovel before I commit to buying parts

.

EDIT: Ok, another hardware requirement I'll need: 802.11. The way I'd like this to work is for me to pull the car into the driveway, leave the PC on, and update it over a wireless connection. Does the Via series have any integrated solutions that use 802.11? If not, how about solutions that offer a PCMCIA port that I can plug a laptop wireless card into?

**DodgeCummins** · 04-06-2007, 05:22 PM

On my mini-itx board I have a older Geforce graphics card (solves the 3d issues...can't game on it anyway), and a PCI to PCMCIA adapter with a Orinoco-clone wifi card.

**2k1Toaster** · 04-07-2007, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by kshots

It really depends on what you're using it for. Personally, I don't hoard up MP3s, and find that 8G should be plenty of room (perhaps with a DVD to hold whatever audio I may care for). I also firmly believe that solid state is the way to go for a carpc. While I could conceivably get away with using a cheap hard drive and then making frequent backups to cover the eventuality of losing the hard drive to vibration, I'd rather not deal with that.

I would also have the option of putting the OS on DVD and not using a hard drive at all... but that would mean:

1. Slow cold start
2. Update to the system = new DVD

Also, why would map data take more than 2G? You'd have your streets database and your graphical maps... I can't see it taking up that much space unless I wanted a much much larger area.

I think you are being overportective. There are many many many people myself included that have been using spinning platter HD's, and have had no problems. Both 3.5 and 2.5" drives can take all the vibration you throw at it, and also the shock needed to kill it, would most deifnately kill you too if you went through it. This is the biggest myth. Sure you might get some bad sectors when you go over a huge pothole and the head is reading/writing, but that wont really matter as most OS will move the damaged data to undamaged space and "quarantine" the offending sectors. Basically all done behind the scenes and you will never notice.

Also there are 1.8" microdrives that can take even more of a beating and you can pick up a broken 60Gb iPod on ebay and salvage the drive for like $40, which is way cheaper than the 8Gb solidstate.

And 8Gb holds barely anything, and if you do long trips or even have friends in the car, it is the best thing in the world when they ask, "hey you got blah blah song?". And you say "Indeed. I have every top 100 list from 1970 to present along with quite a few artists' full discographies."

And for map data, the Navteck maps are about 1.5Gb for the contiguous 48 states and the southern provinces in Canada. iGuidance 3.0 has audio files as well which are built into the map data files they read and total is 2.5Gb.

**kshots** · 04-07-2007, 01:29 PM

Ok, I think I settled on a mobo / enclosure. Unfortunately, they do not sell this mobo here, but I'm looking at the Phylon 7F2WE-1G2 with a CF / PCMCIA daughter board, enclosed in a OPUS Mini-ITX Vehicle Case. This will cap me at 1G of RAM, but I should be able to work around with that.

This will allow me to mount both a PCI video card of some sort, as well as a PCI wireless card with antennae hookup (I refuse to go wireless via USB).

As far as flash vs. hard drive, I think I'll still go flash.

I think I'm going to order parts today - if nobody saw anything other than the hard drives as a "screwy" setup, I think I'm set.

**kshots** · 04-09-2007, 01:26 PM

Ok, I have finished ordering parts. The full load-out is as follows:

mobo: Phylon 7F2WE-1G2 with PCMCIA / CF module (1.2 GHz Fanless Via C7 series)
RAM: 1G Corsair
Video: GeForce FX 5500 (Cheapest new nvidia-based card I could find and be comfortable with - not for games)
Audio: Built-in (still looking for external amp)
Display: Xenarc 700IDT
GPS: 12 Channel ET-202 SiRF II Receiver with MMCX Connector + FME->MMCX adapter + low profile rooftop powered antenna. This setup requires custom work, as the GPS is for embedded devices (only thing I could find that took an external antenna). I plan to connect via RS-232
Chassis: OPUS Mini-ITX Vehicle PC Case w/ built in 120w power supply
Shutdown Controller: CarPC Pro v2.5d
Hard Drive: SanDisk 8G CF
802.11: Netgear WG311 + low profile roofmount antenna (see GPS above)
USB: USB Cigarette Lighter Replacement

Also under consideration: DS80C400 (Dallas Semiconductor) or similar Intel 8051-based microcontroller with built-in ethernet and TCP/IP stack (for sensor monitoring and other MC-related tasks, intend to connect via ethernet to Car PC) (I am also willing to consider similar PIC-based solutions), some sort of amplifier capable of taking surround mini-jack inputs, USB AM/FM tuner, and whatever else I can think of to keep me incredibly busy for the next few years.

**Mastiff** · 05-26-2007, 01:05 PM

I see you have decided, just wanted to say that I disagree about the CF. I have been using regular hard drives in my car for several years (even back to the IBM 40 gig Deathstar's), and I have never ever had a hard drive fault that has cost me any data. I have had a few problems with extreme cold (20 below zero) and regular IDE drives, but S-ATA drives has been flawless for me this winter. I'm guessing that it won't be much of an issue in Florida, though...

I honestly don't think you can mess up a regular hard drive that hasn't got a problem to begin with by normal driving. The hughe pot holes that are around where I live (they actually make the cd's in the car audio system jump) hasn't done anything to the drives. My guess is that if I ever manage to do anything crazy enough to damage one of the harddrives in my car, they will be too busy picking up pieces of me to care about the computer!