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Thread: Creating a CarPC OS from scratch?

  1. #31
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    Excuse me, looks like someone has a stick up his @$$. My post was an example that no matter what OS you have, that hardware also plays a huge part in BOOT times. Writing a new OS may be pointless if the MoBo is what is causing the BOOT time delays in the first place. Where did you get this stupid idea that I have a hacked version of Windows? I have a legal copy that I simply tweaked, using tools that Windows built into the OS in the first place. I didn't have to hack, I'm sorry you don't know the difference between tweaking and hacking. Like I said before, it was simply an example.... stop blowing it out of proportion.
    I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. You suggested using windows and just "tweaking the $hi7" out of it and I simply pointed out that while that option is good for you, it doesn't apply to the topic of this thread which is to create an OS from scratch that you don't have to tweak.

    I agree with you hardware plays a huge role in boot times.

    If I implied you have a hacked version of windows, I apologize. To me, tweaking and hacking are very close. Oft times, "kernel hackers" are just people who are good at tweaking their kernels, applying patches, and digging into the configuration. I forget that "hacker" in the windows world may not mean the same thing and even carry a negative connotation. I agree that there are hackers with mal-intent. I'm not suggesting you are one of those for sure.

    If anything I was complimenting your ability to tweak windows to the point where it boots fast. I think everyone in this forum is really talented at turning something that was never designed for mobile use and making into such. But again, that's not the point of this thread is it?

    Fast boots are not my only prerogative. The goals of LinuxICE are simple: 1- Create a mobile OS that is specific for the Car, needs no tweaking by default (but by all means, if you want to, go for it), and contains all the software by default that you will need in the car. 2- Give it away for free to the community.

    With windows, I can't do 1, and a most certainly can't do 2.

    Peace be with you my friend.
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  2. #32
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerdugans View Post
    Please calm down.

    The term "hacker" does NOT just mean illegally modifying something.

    A hacker is somebody who tweaks, adjusts and generally just messes with things.

    I personally hack the daylights out of my hardware and software at times- and do nothing illegal doing so.

    Hell, getting AVCHD video working in linux required a lot of hacks all by itself, never mind the hacking done when water cooling my computers.

    You were NOT accused of doing anything illegal.
    I dont like the term though, and the way he implied it made it seem like I do illegal stuff. Maybe I just misunderstood. I mean I understand that you guys want to create something new, but even if you guys get a basic OS going, all the devices for Car PC will have to have drivers or what ever Linux uses to get things to work. I dont know if the OS will be able to keep up. Even with me running Windows, I have problems keeping up, lol. I mean I wish you guys luck, but if it doesnt work, you guys have the thread for speeding things up.
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  3. #33
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. You suggested using windows and just "tweaking the $hi7" out of it and I simply pointed out that while that option is good for you, it doesn't apply to the topic of this thread which is to create an OS from scratch that you don't have to tweak.

    I agree with you hardware plays a huge role in boot times.

    If I implied you have a hacked version of windows, I apologize. To me, tweaking and hacking are very close. Oft times, "kernel hackers" are just people who are good at tweaking their kernels, applying patches, and digging into the configuration. I forget that "hacker" in the windows world may not mean the same thing and even carry a negative connotation. I agree that there are hackers with mal-intent. I'm not suggesting you are one of those for sure.

    If anything I was complimenting your ability to tweak windows to the point where it boots fast. I think everyone in this forum is really talented at turning something that was never designed for mobile use and making into such. But again, that's not the point of this thread is it?

    Fast boots are not my only prerogative. The goals of LinuxICE are simple: 1- Create a mobile OS that is specific for the Car, needs no tweaking by default (but by all means, if you want to, go for it), and contains all the software by default that you will need in the car. 2- Give it away for free to the community.

    With windows, I can't do 1, and a most certainly can't do 2.

    Peace be with you my friend.
    It didnt read that way..... anyways lets drop it, no hard feelings, I am known as the Angry Car PC guy, so it could be that Im seeing something that isnt there. I guess I just dont like the word hacker.

    Anyways, its going to be really hard since Windows literally has its grips on 95% of all the devices needed to run in the car. I will give you props if you guys get this going.

    Now when you guys say OS, will this be a OS with a intergrated Front End? If no, someone will also have to design that too. I guess maybe Im just lazy when it comes to software, just give me Windows, and Centrafuse and I am ok. By the way, what about Windows CE. I have a MoBo that runs that and its fast. FLux is also coming out with a Windows CE version of its front end. I also see alot of drivers and programs for windows CE.
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  4. #34
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    Ideally, a distro for CarPC use would include the front end, have the most common drivers included as loadable modules and others as precompiled, installable loadable modules and for those instances where it is needed, full source code available to compile drivers manually. (Loadable modules are the equivalent of Windows drivers, and can be included IN a kernel which means they are always running, or as loadable modules which means they are only running IF and WHEN the hardware that uses them is present.)

    No software that is not strictly required would be included in a base installation, but WOULD be available if needed.
    For example:
    networking, both wired and wifi would be loadable modules and the more esoteric ones would NOT be installed by default, but available online if needed.

    The lack of superfluous code running in the background is one of the areas where linux has a HUGE advantage over windows:
    my carpc is a dual-core Atom 1.6 and has absolutely ZERO problems running Garmin Mobile PC in wine, playing music, browsing the web AND watching a web-video at the same time.
    Using my Verizon EVDO mobile broadband usb stick.
    (Note that I also have a 1.6 ghz single-core Atom netbook that does very nearly as well- and is much faster running linux than it was with XP when I bought it.)

    For software- things like an office suite would NOT be installed, nor would an email client or web browser. Server software would not be installed, nor would calendar apps, hardware monitoring (temp reporting) or any auto-update software for the OS. Also missing would be anti-virus, printer, cd/dvd authoring stuff, and phot editing applications. All of these and far more WOULD be available through various online repositories, but there would be NOTHING installed by default that did not match the initial hardware configuration of the system, unless it is necessary for the OS to run a minimal carpc.

    File system would most likely be a simplistic one without journaling for speed (and SSD optimization) but a journaled fs would be available.

    The base install would be very minimal other than what the frontend requires to run.
    Distributions such as Slackware, Gentoo and Debian's net-install (among others) have installed very basic systems like this for years

    There would be a post-install "Control Center" app or even script to choose further components for those who are less than experienced with linux (and more user friendly for those who ARE!)

    There SHOULD be a gui frontend for whichever software packaging system is installed (apt for Debian-based systems, yum for Fedora) so that additional software can be installed.

    As a rule, just about every piece of hardware required for a linux based carpc (minus perhaps radio- not sure of that) already works 100% in linux, it just needs to be configured.
    Some of this configuration IS cryptic and/or barely discussed, but most of it is as easy as falling off a log.

    But scripts and help files will be needed for some things, including some of the gps stuff, especially if wine is needed for navigation.

    A lot of this work is already done- NGhost and LinuxICE have had a huge amount of work done since I really got started in this hobby, but it is a work in progress.

  5. #35
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    Yes, it will be an OS with integrated "Front-End". It doesn't seem you are yet familiar with the project. Look here for an overview and look here for more propaganda on why the ideology of the front-end is wrong.

    You are right, hardware support is an issue. I can only think of a few devices that don't work that I know of:

    1) Sat Radio

    Everything else just works. We now have a FusionBrain driver (thanks malcom2073), HD Radio/visteon support, GPS Devices, 3G modems, Bluetooth tethering with Phones. Drivers for Atom hardware are excellent thanks to intel and the moblin project. Most Wifi cards/dongles work out of the box. What else is there... ?

    The cool thing is, these devices will work out of the box with no other driver installation necessary.

    On another topic, I think CF already worked (at least with a few tweaks ) on windows CE. If bundled together with the right hardware support, it would make a compelling product... for the right price.
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  6. #36
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    wow i guess i was late to the party lol. i never knew that people already thought this up and were working on it. all i have seen so far on frontends were windows based and i have been dissapointed cos most of them take too long to boot and have a lot of unnecessary apps and drivers tacked on which of course slow it down.

    rogerdugans has the exact same idea i had, a carpc OS should load only the most important and vital things eg music,gps and diagnostics needed to get going. it should also be configurable so that you can prioritize the things you want to be loaded at boot-up and everything else should load in the background.

    @tidder unless you work out of your car in which case a 7" screen is a terrible idea most of those apps you mentioned are unnecessary and overkill in a carpc environment. thats what a laptop is for, in a carpc i dont think i need to be running tax software or outlook, but thats your choice. everyone is allowed to run whatever they want to run on their carpc. just because linux does not work for your needs, it don't mean it won't work for any one else. personally i feel a carpc should run everything car related perfect and boot up in <7s everything else can be run on a laptop.

    personally, i don't really like linux but that's only because it requires a learning curve which i am too lazy to go through. what i do love about it is the open source nature of it and the fact that it can be fine tuned into whatever you need. take a look at all the variations out there, there is android which is basically a cell phone specific OS fine tuned out of linux code, most of the instant on OS's found on netbooks are also linux based, even webOS the new cell phone specific OS for palm phones is linux based, most major servers out there are also linux based. so linux is highly tweakable, way more than windows and this is all because of its open source nature. i think given the opportunity a carpc specific OS is possible as kev0000 has shown. i guess the only problem in this area will be getting the right bunch of people together who can help speed the process along. i know it probably is going to be a long treacherous road been that there is really no financial enumeration involved unless some big company gets involved but i am hoping kev0000 and the others out there can make it happen despite all odds, i am officially behind the movement for a linux based carpc OS

  7. #37
    licensed to kill - FKA kev000
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    i am officially behind the movement for a linux based carpc OS
    Thanks for your support! . Someone once said to me, "In the end the user should not be concerned what OS is under the hood as long as the FrontEnd provides everything the user could need." -silvi4000

    While the frontend interface may not be able to do "everything" at first, hopefully, if enough of the right people jump ship and put their knowledge behind this idea, it could become a beautiful thing.

    We will get there... LinuxICE1 almost got there. LinuxICE2 is gaining momentum and more and more support is pouring in, even from a few hardcore windows users.
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
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  8. #38
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev000 View Post
    Yes, it will be an OS with integrated "Front-End". It doesn't seem you are yet familiar with the project. Look here for an overview and look here for more propaganda on why the ideology of the front-end is wrong.

    You are right, hardware support is an issue. I can only think of a few devices that don't work that I know of:

    1) Sat Radio

    Everything else just works. We now have a FusionBrain driver (thanks malcom2073), HD Radio/visteon support, GPS Devices, 3G modems, Bluetooth tethering with Phones. Drivers for Atom hardware are excellent thanks to intel and the moblin project. Most Wifi cards/dongles work out of the box. What else is there... ?

    The cool thing is, these devices will work out of the box with no other driver installation necessary.

    On another topic, I think CF already worked (at least with a few tweaks ) on windows CE. If bundled together with the right hardware support, it would make a compelling product... for the right price.
    My bad for not clarifying.... I dont mean Windows XP embeded, I mean Windows CE 4.2, CE 5, Windows Mobile 6, etc....
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kloves2fly View Post
    @tidder unless you work out of your car in which case a 7" screen is a terrible idea most of those apps you mentioned are unnecessary and overkill in a carpc environment. thats what a laptop is for, in a carpc i dont think i need to be running tax software or outlook, but thats your choice. everyone is allowed to run whatever they want to run on their carpc. just because linux does not work for your needs, it don't mean it won't work for any one else. personally i feel a carpc should run everything car related perfect and boot up in <7s everything else can be run on a laptop.
    Clearly you and I have different ideas of what is terrible. 7" works fine for printing out invoices from Quickbooks.

    Linux may work for all kinds of people. As soon as there is a decent linux navi software, it'll work for me too. I'm just illustrating a point that a CarPC doesn't have a defined job, therefore you can't expect one OS to work for everyone, esp if it's linux based. This is why we all just don't buy Pioneer AVIC's, or wtfever they are.
    Tidder

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  10. #40
    Newbie cano's Avatar
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    I saw this video were they used the Android OS on a laptop. What kind of OS is Android? I love my G1 it has a bunch of app. It has nav but you have to have internet connection.

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