Thread: Creating a CarPC OS from scratch?

Originally Posted by Tidder

I'm just illustrating a point that a CarPC doesn't have a defined job, therefore you can't expect one OS to work for everyone... This is why we all just don't buy Pioneer AVIC's, or wtfever they are.

Amen to that!

In the original planning stages of my Car PC, I was planning on hacking up Damn Small Linux and programming my front end on top of it. No one could ever program a front end for me because I am planning full integration of everything in my car. This plan is great and all but then I said "no chance." GUI programming is awful in linux.

I also have a sheeva plug going in my car though, so linux will still play a major roll in my install. I'm going with windows XP up front, but down the road, you may see me doing the linux thing. Linux is an epic pain to set up too. I've been playing with linux for years, but it is often times just too much of a hassle to get things done.

FreeBSD on the other hand is a great OS which I would like to see in a car pc. I think when I go down the unix road I will probably hit up FreeBSD instead of linux. While it still has the same GUI drawbacks as linux, all the applications actually work the first time I install them. It also destroys linux in the stability arena. Managing freeBSD machines is much more fun than linux.

Originally Posted by PaulF

GUI programming is awful in linux.

What GUI toolkit did you try? I've coded using Windows Forms, Qt, Gtk+, GTK#, and my own hacked toolkit for both windows and Linux. Qt and Gtk# are awesome. I put Gtk# above Qt and Windows Forms. It's so easy to create a good UI, it almost brings a tear to my eye. If you had a rough time, I'm curious to know what you used and why it was "awful"...

Linux is an epic pain to set up too. I've been playing with linux for years, but it is often times just too much of a hassle to get things done.

This statement also baffles me. I've only been playing with Linux for a few years, and I honestly can't stand going through a Windows XP install anymore. It takes much, much longer to setup a working Windows box for me than it does a Linux box. When I'm done with the "5 clicks" it takes me to start the Ubuntu install, I have a fully working box with open office, gimp, cd burning tools, media players, firefox and **ALL DRIVERS** preinstalled. I really hate playing catch 22 with windows because it doesn't have drivers for my wifi, yet I need the internet to download drivers for my wifi.

Maybe you were installing slackware or gentoo? Those can be very hard to setup right.

-Kev

PS, I'm upgrading my Ubuntu carpc right now from 8.10 to 9.04 and it took me all of 2 clicks to start the upgrade.

Originally Posted by kev000

What GUI toolkit did you try? I've coded using Windows Forms, Qt, Gtk+, GTK#, and my own hacked toolkit for both windows and Linux. Qt and Gtk# are awesome. I put Gtk# above Qt and Windows Forms. It's so easy to create a good UI, it almost brings a tear to my eye. If you had a rough time, I'm curious to know what you used and why it was "awful"...

See, now it's coming down to opinion. I really don't like the GUIs that come out of GTK. So I admittedly have not used GTK. QT4 isn't bad, but, to me, it doesn't compare to Visual Studio .net. Throw the Windows Presentation Framework into the mix and you can't even compare them. Admittedly, GUI design isn't a good thing to argue about though as everyone will have a different opinion.

Originally Posted by kev000

It takes much, much longer to setup a working Windows box for me than it does a Linux box. When I'm done with the "5 clicks" it takes me to start the Ubuntu install, I have a fully working box with open office, gimp, cd burning tools, media players, firefox and **ALL DRIVERS** pre-installed.

Most drivers are installed perfectly fine. 3d accelerated graphics is a completely different story. Getting the latest version of those drivers working correctly is always a mission. Oh let me get kernel headers this, compiler that and fail at the configuration 7 times and get stuck at run level 3 and text-based web browsers to help me fix my configuration files. And then if I'm going to use linux, I at least want the greatest GUI features it has to offer in the likes of Beryl with Xcube. That's another mission right there.

I always end up needing to install wine with some serious tweaks too because I simply cannot do without Powerpoint and Photoshop. Web design becomes a real chore without Dreamweaver too. Don't suggest Nvu. It does'n auto-complete your code which saves so much time.

If you're looking for basics, yes linux is a faster install. The issue is when you start getting more serious programs involved and needing to compile programs yourself.

Originally Posted by kev000

PS, I'm upgrading my Ubuntu carpc right now from 8.10 to 9.04 and it took me all of 2 clicks to start the upgrade.

2 clicks, and then finding out all the programs you compiled or installed from other repositories are now broken and the whole package management system fell on its face due to incompatible dependencies.


I'm not trashing linux though. I do like linux quite a bit. It's just more of a hassle than windows during initial setup and when installing applications. The lack of professional applications is a big issue too. But linux has its major plus points like workspaces and the 3d xcube.

I admit that a properly configured linux system is a MUCH better choice for a car pc operating system than XP is though. It has the performance and configuration to destroy windows across the board if you put the right amount of work into it.

No, I am not a hacker, tweaking using Windows given tools is not hacking.

Actually, that's more or less the definition of hacking

a new OS for cars based on Android, unfortunately it looks like its gonna be specialized hardware. Link

Ahh, okay. I see where you are coming from now. You are referring to Linux on the desktop being a pain.

I also have had my fair share of "fun" with getting 3D drivers working on Linux. Specifically with ATI. NVidia stuff normally works out of the box for me, but I normally just use the binary packages provided by ubuntu for that. I have rarely needed to use any later drivers than that, and when I do, "envi" installs them without a problem.

I do agree with you on your dreamweaver, etc issues as well. For some things, there are not good alternatives on Linux. And emulation is not an option in all cases. Operating system choice often comes down to the apps you *need* to use. If you need windows apps that don't run on Linux, windows is probably the best choice for you... unless you like headaches .

My last job was a windows shop. I really got tired of working in windows XP because of some annoyances that never got fixed (not to mention I think windows XP looks like 7 year old **** with its un-aliased graphics/fonts, etc). The problem was, I really needed to use VS 2008 to do my work. I ended up trying VMWare workstation 6.5 (?) with unity mode. I was able to run VS 2008 in virtualization as if it was running as a native app in Linux. It was cool. The only thing that sucked was that the fonts and graphics within the windows app still looked like ****... I guess I can't get everything I want .

I have no love whatsoever for C++, but I do love Qt. Odd I know, but Qt makes things so easy, it makes so much sense, uses a decent file open dialog (unlike GTK), and looks better as well. Yeah, I know everyone doesn't share my opinion, but that's OK. And to all those having multiple issues with Ubuntu, try a different distro. There are so many things wrong with Ubuntu it's not even worth discussing. Suse (just for an example) is quite polished. Though I haven't bothered much with the craziness of distros for years, LFS creates an entirely new level of bliss

Originally Posted by nalav

I have no love whatsoever for C++, but I do love Qt. Odd I know, but Qt makes things so easy, it makes so much sense, uses a decent file open dialog (unlike GTK), and looks better as well. Yeah, I know everyone doesn't share my opinion, but that's OK. And to all those having multiple issues with Ubuntu, try a different distro. There are so many things wrong with Ubuntu it's not even worth discussing. Suse (just for an example) is quite polished. Though I haven't bothered much with the craziness of distros for years, LFS creates an entirely new level of bliss

Qt is quite nice and does make things very easy. I can definitely appreciate that. Qt is probably the only toolkit that really demonstrates the full power of the c++ language. I can't think of anything like it in the c++ world. I think that Qt has actually influenced some things in java/c#.

As for distro madness, I think when you get to the point where you can build a LFS, gentoo, or other flavor from scratch to the point where everything is perfectly how you want them, your taste for pre-built and generic distro's like ubuntu changes. I personally can appreciate many things that ubuntu does and does well. Though not anywhere close to perfect by default, there's a good reason why it's the most popular Linux desktop, and its not the brown theme or the name (2 things that probably play against it).

This thread has turned into a Linux love-fest. And probably because *nix is really the only OS you can build up from scratch realistically.