getting started....ATX vs ITX etc

**FiSKARZ** · 01-03-2004, 05:05 PM

Hi....new to the forums but pretty experienced with PC hardware/software....i do want to (and have confidence to) build a pc for my car rather than purchase a pre-assembled case. My biggest problem is getting started with the setup, ie. motherboard, processor, and power supply....below is my existing list of components (installed in one of my lesser-used PCs)

WD100 gig HD 7200
nvidia geforce4 TI 4400

soundblaster audigy (not 2)

(from searching the forums....it looks like ITX basically refers to a laptop configuration, and ATX to a desktop, which would let me use the above hardware)

and possible components to purchase:
slot-loading DVD player (for in-dash interface)
active-USB 2-port hub (in-dash)
...i'll figure out the screens when i get to it

a series of questions follow...
- ATX vs. ITX (am i right with desktop/laptop assumption?) inc. power requirements...
- what is EPIA900, 10000, etc?? does that have to do with PCI slots, features, etc
- what kind of mobo should i get if i intend on using pentium4?
- how long can you run IDE cable (trunk to dash??) without losing data

sorry for the long post, any help is greatly appreciated!

**telekineticfool** · 01-03-2004, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by FiSKARZ

- ATX vs. ITX (am i right with desktop/laptop assumption?) inc. power requirements...
- what is EPIA900, 10000, etc?? does that have to do with PCI slots, features, etc

Mini-ITX.com has info on the Mini-ITX form factor...it has nothing to do with laptops, it is just a smaller architecture made by Via. The Epia M10000 is generally regarded to be the best for use in a car computer, although there are some new ones coming out...these boards have onboard unswappable ultra-low power use processors, the speed of which is indicated by the number (10000=1ghz)

As far as power, an ITX has something like 10-20 times less power used/heat generated than P4..Don't quote me, but I think the watts on a P4 is up around 75-100, and on an Epia it is single digits.

- what kind of mobo should i get if i intend on using pentium4?

Whatever Micro ATX has the amount of AGP and PCI slots that you want is probably a good bet if you're set on P4

- how long can you run IDE cable (trunk to dash??) without losing data

Not far enough. You will lose data starting at about 24"...supposedly someone made a 5' IDE cable but I'll believe it when I see it. My advice is don't be ghetto, use something that is meant for longer-distances like USB2 or Firewire.

**FiSKARZ** · 01-04-2004, 11:06 AM

thanks for the info

Originally Posted by telekineticfool

Mini-ITX.com has info on the Mini-ITX form factor...it has nothing to do with laptops, it is just a smaller architecture made by Via. The Epia M10000 is generally regarded to be the best for use in a car computer, although there are some new ones coming out...these boards have onboard unswappable ultra-low power use processors, the speed of which is indicated by the number (10000=1ghz).

so i would be stuck with an onboard processor (maximum 1ghz?) if i were to get any EPIA board?

Originally Posted by telekineticfool

Whatever Micro ATX has the amount of AGP and PCI slots that you want is probably a good bet if you're set on P4

I was browsing through OPUS and saw the "ATX Vehicle Workstation" which seems to include a case and power supply (150w)....two questions about that setup.....will 150W be enough power to accomodate a P4 processor, 1 DVD/RW drive, 7200rpm HDD, audigy, geforce4, and say, a couple of USBs.....and also, do the PCI slots line up on every board in the same way (so the cards would fit the openings on the case)

and finally....if i go the route of a USB DVD/RW drive for my dash, am i limited to only external drives, or is there some sort of IDE to USB convertor i could get?? thanks !

**robiewp** · 01-04-2004, 01:36 PM

there certainly are such converters. How much space do you have in your car? battery power? heat disipation? all reasons to consider the ITX

**robiewp** · 01-04-2004, 02:40 PM

besides, what doyou need more than 1 ghz for? Is there some new super virtual porn nobody told me about?

**Almost a Ghost** · 01-04-2004, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by robiewp

besides, what doyou need more than 1 ghz for? Is there some new super virtual porn nobody told me about?

Well, why would anybody need a DVD-R/RW and a Geforce 4400 in the car. Overkill is never good

**Almost a Ghost** · 01-04-2004, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by FiSKARZ

and finally....if i go the route of a USB DVD/RW drive for my dash, am i limited to only external drives, or is there some sort of IDE to USB convertor i could get?? thanks !

Yes, there are external shell casings you can get that will allow you to convert an internal hard drive/rom drive to an external drive connect by firewire, usb, and usb 2.0. I've seen them around for $25. But they require their own DC power supply, so that's something else you're going to have to factor into your total power usage, shouldn't be that high though.

**BlueF** · 01-04-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by FiSKARZ

ATX vs. ITX

Good question.

Best thing to ask is: Do you need/want the small form factor which ITX allows, such as the ability to mount the PC under a seat or in the glovebox?

On the other hand, do you plan/prefer to use a normal ATX mid-tower case (or even slightly smaller micro-ATX, mini-tower and/or slimline case) located in your trunk?

Of course, while there are a hanfull of other related issues/concerns (cable lengths, inverters, etc) which will affect your decision, I would start with car PC location (and size requirements) and go from there.

**FiSKARZ** · 01-04-2004, 06:36 PM

OK....after a little more research and some helpful answers, I plan to use the
OPUS ATX Vehicle Workstation, 150W dc-dc (PSU, case, and fan). I found a convertor that lets me run a laptop optical drive (mounted in-dash) to the PC via USB 2.0 or Firewire...runs $80 but i can save space in my dash by using laptop drive VS desktop IDE...
http://www.bixnet.com/usenforslcdd.html

ALMOST A GHOST: a laptop combo drive runs about $40 more than a standard DVD....and the GeForce 4400 i already have.....also not to sound cocky, but i have a hefty amount of money to spend on purchases and installation. I would like good components in the PC itself, rather than selling and buying new hardware when the software catches up. At the same time i'm not investing my money on advanced VGA touchscreens....as my only realistic option is to install 2 7" TFT LCDs in my sunvisors (VGA in the sunvisors would be great, but seems to me that they dont exist)

ROBIEWP: (trunk) space is no concern, according to the dimensions at opus, even factoring in a few extra inches on all sides for running wires, etc. as far as battery is concerned, are you saying i will have trouble running this system with the car on (im not to swift with the electronics). I don't plan on using the PC with the car off...also, I plan to install windowsXP with all the bells and whistles, uninstalling/disabling networking services at boot-up

BLUEF: i plan (so far) to use the case provided with the opus ATX workstation (DC-DC 150w), in the trunk obviously. The case measures 13" x 15.5" x 5.6"...and according to the site, this case can accomodate a full atx board. Assuming i go the P4 route (which eats up ~75w i think) would i be able to power a basic setup, 512mb ram, 7200RPM hdd, geforce 4, SB audigy, and a few USBs (an optical drive would be used as well, but the laptop drive as well as the convertor bay would be separately powered). Also, regarding that optical drive, it has a separate 5v power jack on the back of the unit...how would i get regulated power to that from the car? or would it be easier to somehow power it from the PC itself?

thank you to everyone for your help so far

**robiewp** · 01-04-2004, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by FiSKARZ

ROBIEWP: (trunk) space is no concern, according to the dimensions at opus, even factoring in a few extra inches on all sides for running wires, etc. as far as battery is concerned, are you saying i will have trouble running this system with the car on (im not to swift with the electronics). I don't plan on using the PC with the car off...also, I plan to install windowsXP with all the bells and whistles, uninstalling/disabling networking services at boot-up

I was just pointing out that full blown ATX systems generally require much more juice. I don't think you'll have problems if you only use it when the engine is running.

Unless there's space you can't use for anything else (say, the center of your spare tire), it's always nice for things to be smaller.

As for the adapter that will allow you to connect an internal laptop CD drive to USB2 externally, such things can be found on ebay for under $25, and as low as $15. They aren't both firewire and usb at that price, but why would you need both for a semi-perm install?

Originally Posted by Almost a Ghost

Well, why would anybody need a DVD-R/RW and a Geforce 4400 in the car. Overkill is never good

maybe this new super porn nobody told me about can be personalized and requires DVD-R to move the settings from computer to computer, and is so graphic intensive you need a Gefoce 4400.

I personally would use a DVD-R for transfering music and DVD images, in the absence of my external firewire drive. I use the car comp so much I find myself wanting things off it, not to put on it. There's nothing like somebody saying, "damn, i wish we had such and such movie to watch" and being able to go out to your car and bring in a disk in 15 minutes