Thread: anyone know about supplemental hydrogen?

Good information on hydrogen as an energy source is here. Basically, they say that most hydrogen is generated from either natural gas or using electricity and water. It is cheaper to do it from natural gas.

Presuming you can get an efficiency boost by injecting hydrogen into your car engine, the question is whether the cost of the technique will pay for itself.

Also, hydrogen carries about 1/3 the energy of natural gas, so you need more of it to equal the energy that natural gas carries, which is why many solely hydrogen powered cars have these high pressure tanks in them.

Given that natural gas has more energy per cubic foot than hydrogen, even if it were more expensive to purchase, it might make more sense to use natural gas rather than hydrogen in the car.

The canard here is that with the hydrogen solution discussed in this thread, you 'generate' hydrogen yourself from your battery. Therefore, the cost of generating hydrogen is a function of the cost of recharging the battery or the source of the electricity. If using a battery, that means that you are using expensive gasoline to generate the hydrogen via recharging of the battery. If using electricity from an outlet, it would depend on the price of electricity in your area for the volume of hydrogen that is required.

It seems simpler to try this technique with natural gas and see if you observe a boost. If the results are encouraging, try it with hydrogen.

I would caution, however, that I don't think it is a wise idea and you could easily end up burning yourself, your car, or both.

Originally Posted by Bugbyte

...The canard here is that with the hydrogen solution discussed in this thread, you 'generate' hydrogen yourself from your battery. Therefore, the cost of generating hydrogen is a function of the cost of recharging the battery or the source of the electricity. If using a battery, that means that you are using expensive gasoline to generate the hydrogen via recharging of the battery....

So here's my question: If I'm driving along at 50mph, and then I turn on my headlights, windshield wipers, car stereo, blower fan (not AC, mind you), and carPC, did my gas mileage just drop as a function of that? If so, how much?

I always thought that a 140A alternator had the capacity to output 140A at a certain RPM, not that it absolutely WOULD. I do understand that it can't output the full 140A at idle, but I don't know what RPM range is used for testing, but let's say it's 2500rpm. If you are only using 60A at say 2500rpm, can you not go to using 100A and stay at 2500rpm?

Does that make sense? I want to know what happens to the extra capacity of the alternator if we aren't using it to power accessories or charge the battery.

Originally Posted by wizardPC

So here's my question: If I'm driving along at 50mph, and then I turn on my headlights, windshield wipers, car stereo, blower fan (not AC, mind you), and carPC, did my gas mileage just drop as a function of that? If so, how much?

Yes, but I don't know how much. You'd have to figure out what the equivalent horsepower draw of the wattage is and the fuel consumption that follows.

Originally Posted by wizardPC

I always thought that a 140A alternator had the capacity to output 140A at a certain RPM, not that it absolutely WOULD. I do understand that it can't output the full 140A at idle, but I don't know what RPM range is used for testing, but let's say it's 2500rpm. If you are only using 60A at say 2500rpm, can you not go to using 100A and stay at 2500rpm?

Does that make sense? I want to know what happens to the extra capacity of the alternator if we aren't using it to power accessories or charge the battery.

It supplies only what it is asked to supply, so there is no excess load to dump if it isn't getting used. An alternator is a strange beast. Most people think it puts out DC power, but it doesn't. An alternator generates AC current and there is circuitry built into the alternator to rectify the current to 13.5 or whatever it is supposed to put out.

That means that the alternator probably can put out near its max power even at idle.

The voltage on a generator, on the other hand, does vary with RPM. Which explains why cars don't use them anymore but piston powered aircraft often do (the rpm range is much tighter on an aircraft engine -say 1500-3000 rpms or thereabouts)

Originally Posted by Lovecraft

You can't possibly generate enough Hydrogen to supplement the energy needs of an automobile IC engine, from the engine itself. What we have here is another perpetual motion myth, or free energy myth, albeit now this post is just talking about "supplementing" the fossil fuels. I'd equate this to attaching solar panels to light bulbs.

I suggest you look up how much H2 is required to power even a 5HP engine, then see how long it takes to generate that amount through the electrolysis of water with a reasonable automotive power source, say 10-15 amps at 12V.

Someone needs to look up "supplemental."

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Originally Posted by wizardPC

Someone needs to look up "supplemental."

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

But look, he used the word albeit, so I think he does have a clue, but wanted to go off on his own tangent and just used it as a diving board.

Oh, I see, he think's we switched to talking about supplemental hydrogen.