Thread: anyone know about supplemental hydrogen?

once we have near free electricity (come on fusion) then hydrogen will be a good power source. Cuz then it wouldn't matter how much electricity it would cost to produce. we could just keep pumping it out.

that is the real key to an hydrogen economy.

Originally Posted by 84RegalRider

once we have near free electricity (come on fusion) then hydrogen will be a good power source. Cuz then it wouldn't matter how much electricity it would cost to produce. we could just keep pumping it out.

that is the real key to an hydrogen economy.

It would be great if they perfect the fusion reactor. But I'm not holding my breath. Even if they got it right today, it would take decades to design, license, field, and implement. Meantime, we are on a hydrocarbon based economy.

As far as I can tell, the most versatile form of energy is electricity. There are so many ways to generate it and so many ways it can be used to power or heat or whatever.

In terms of automobiles, the problem is storage and rapid replenishment of electricity onboard. There is no major breakthrough that I am aware of that will change this equation in the near future.

The key then, lies in a combination of increasing fuel economy and a move away from internal combustion to either hydrogen or electrical or something else. In the near term, the main way to encourage that is to for gasoline prices to continue to increase, discouraging its consumption and making alternatives more economical (including mass transit, carpooling, smaller engines and so forth)

If that includes hydrogen fusion, great. But the nuclear industry made claims back in the 70's about electricity being so cheap that it would cost more to meter it than it would to simply give it away for free. So far, that hasn't turned up on my electric bill.

WizardPC and Eric_Barcus: You want to believe, so strongly in fact that you become convinced that it will work if you just believe strongly enough.

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond because you've decided not to read the rest of this because I'm not telling you what you want to hear, but this is the situation:
1. It takes more energy to split water into "hydroxy" or "brown gas" or (whatever they're calling it this week, part of the constant name changes is so that googling something won't bring up past analysis that dissects the issue.) than you get from it. Doesn't matter if you're only using it as a 'supplement' or not, you're spending more energy then you get. Period. Also, comma.

2. There is not "extra" electricity in the car that can be used for this. Increasing electrical demand means the alternator makes more power by pulling it from the engine. Yes, headlights and stereos lower your mileage, as does the electrolysis machine.

The power of belief alone is not enough in this situation. You may have already tuned out of this post, but seriously... don't get pulled in by this scam. Remember that guy you know who started selling Amway to all his friends 10 years ago? Remember how everyone who didn't stop talking to him now pokes fun at him once in a while for his fervor and honest belief in the 'amway life'? Don't be that guy.

Originally Posted by Bugbyte

...the nuclear industry made claims back in the 70's about electricity being so cheap that it would cost more to meter it than it would to simply give it away for free. So far, that hasn't turned up on my electric bill.

It probably never was going to be free, but it certainly could have lowered the price of power quite a bit. The anti-nuclear lobby essentially stopped all nuclear development in the early 70s. There hasn't been a new plant in ages, so we never gave it a chance to drop our electrical prices.

Ironically, the 'environmentalists' who did this were responsible for millions of tons of soot and waste being pumped into our environment by petroleum power plants, as well as millions of acres of beautiful land despoiled to mine for coal to power the coal plants because the nukes that would have put them out of business weren't allowed to appear. The founder of Greenpeace came out publicly and apologized recently and has said that he (and his organization) screwed the pooch and he now backs nuclear power.

But the movement has legs of its own now, and the excitable and non-scientific masses (lots of the same folks in the 'hydroxy' crowd, go figure) reject anything with the evil nuclear name.

Originally Posted by danielkh

Some people have a hard time thinking out of the box. Awhile back, I was talking about suplimental wind created electricity on an electric car. What was everyone's first response? "Didn't you take high school physics? A windmill on a car creates more drag than the electricity it creates! Ahahahaha....what a moron. Look at this guy!"

But what they failed to see was that every surface, even a razor blade on it's edge has some drag coeffecient. Now, take some surface that already has drag, say hood, grill, between windshield and roof, and put in a compression tunnel, add a wind turbine on it's side INSIDE this tunnel. or even a series of turbines. Now you haven't increased drag, and you have an electric generator running faster than the car (through compression), and voila! You have suplimental electricity through a wind generator WITHOUT creating more drag. You may not be able to run the car "perpetually". but you will be able to go further than you could without it.

Arrogance isn't always your friend. And suplimental is suplimental even if it only increases effeciency by .000001%.

I wouldn't go so far as calling you a moron - but you forgot one basic element in your logic: if you're able to create a "tunnel" in your car, you would make it more efficient by just letting the air pass through instead of putting any turbine in there...

Still the same problem: the efficiency of conversion between different technologies of energy storage/transport is quite low, so just evading any conversion and minimising consumption is the only way to increase efficiency.

The prius works on the theory that a combustion engine isn't always as efficient as it can be. At low RPM and low loads it is less efficient, so they gain a little bit of efficiency by charging batteries when the engine runs in the best conditions (right rpm) and uses the electric motor for accelerating from low speeds etc...
The prius isn't that efficient if you consider aerodynamics, thin tyres, low weight etc. The hybrid technology is 90% marketing and 10% real improvement.

If the same results were possible with the tech described here, why would they make it so complicated in the prius?

What could help: create the hydrogen yourself (using grid electricity), compress it yourself (this takes energy too!), put it in the car and use as supplemental energy source. Probably more efficient using a fuel cell and electric motor to convert hydrogen into kynetic energy. Probably more efficient to use batteries you charge from the grid to transport the energy...etc etc etc...

But they are all fun projects and the sheer hope for it to make any difference will make you drive more efficiently (less acceleration...etc read up on hypermiling if you don't know what I mean: it can make for spectacular MPG without mods) so the environment and your wallet will be happy

Good luck!

Originally Posted by eric_barcus

ok i didnt even read ANY of the responces to this thread cause i can tell you that this is EXACTLY<long punctuationless text snipped>

Translation: Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up.

Chairboy, Why do you disbelieve that this is possible?

You are not creating energey from nothing. All it is is pulling the atoms out of water and using them for fuel. Maybe current electrolisis is not effiecent enough but maybe some of these guys are on to something.

They make welders out of this technology already. It does use 220VAC to run.
http://hytechapps.com/aquygen/generator

From what ive read they claim to be able to resonate the electrolis process to seperate the hydrogen and water faster. I donbt think you will believe it even if you see it working.

Maybe eric_barcus will show us some videos of his setup?

I'm still sceptical of it working. But scientest have been disproved over and over again to find out what they thought was impossible, is possible.

We use to think the world was flat. We thought Pluto was our 9th planet, (which sucks, i still think it counts as the 9th planet!)

Plenty more things have been proven to be possible that were not thought possible in the past. Only time will tell.

Didn't they recently say that the big bang theory is possibly the most acurate explanation of how we all started. (not that that means anything, who really cares about something that happen trillions of years ago.)

Anyways, thats my 2 cents. I need this to work so my tahoe will get better MPG

Originally Posted by pRoFiT

Chairboy, Why do you disbelieve that this is possible?

You are not creating energey from nothing. All it is is pulling the atoms out of water and using them for fuel. Maybe current electrolisis is not effiecent enough but maybe some of these guys are on to something.

They make welders out of this technology already. It does use 220VAC to run.
http://hytechapps.com/aquygen/generator

From what ive read they claim to be able to resonate the electrolis process to seperate the hydrogen and water faster. I donbt think you will believe it even if you see it working.

OK, how much electricity does it use and how does that compare to the energy available in gas form? THAT's the key.

Maybe eric_barcus will show us some videos of his setup?

I'm still sceptical of it working. But scientest have been disproved over and over again to find out what they thought was impossible, is possible.

We use to think the world was flat. We thought Pluto was our 9th planet, (which sucks, i still think it counts as the 9th planet!)

Plenty more things have been proven to be possible that were not thought possible in the past. Only time will tell.

I'm convinced we will discover plenty of new energy sources, but I doubt man will discover them on some internet forum

Didn't they recently say that the big bang theory is possibly the most acurate explanation of how we all started. (not that that means anything, who really cares about something that happen trillions of years ago.)

There are a lot of mathematics behind that (just like discovering the earth is round) and exactly there all these internet hoaxes don't "add up" heh..

Anyways, thats my 2 cents. I need this to work so my tahoe will get better MPG

I want this to work as much as you, but just wanting it isn't going to make it happen Worse, all this crap on the internet confuses us into spending more money!

That's my 2 cents (and I'm willing to ignore exchange rates so they are equal value )