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Thread: hydrogen hybrid (70 mpg ?)

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb hydrogen hybrid (70 mpg ?)

    Hey y'all. This really has nothing to do with carputers obviously, but I'm sure alot of you will find this very interesting if you don't already know about it.

    A few weeks ago I found this page on how to pump hydrogen into your engine and possibly triple your gas mileage. For those that don't want to read that entire page(so much reading), here is how it works in a nutshell.

    You place a tank of water in your engine compartment with two carriage bolts inserted into the top. Here are a few pictures of mine.



    You add an electrolyte(conductor) to the water. Battery acid, baking soda, or salt will work..although battery acid seems to be the most efficient. When a current is added, a chemical reaction called electrolysis occurs. Bubbles will start to form from each of the bolts. One will release hydrogen, and the other will release oxygen(which just so happens to be the two propellants in the space shuttle). So this creates the H & O and basically all you have to do after that is attach a hose to the top of the tank with a small pump(windshield wiper pump) to suck the H & O into the air intake and your engine does the rest. It's not quite that simple obviously as I will find out soon enough when I go to put this thing in my car...but it's suppose to triple your gas mileage and I figured this is the kind of project alot of you would like to take on.

    On that note, has anyone ever tried this? Alot of people I know assume right away that it won't work even though they know nothing of chemistry, cars, or common sense. They assume that just because more people aren't doing it that it's not a sound idea. They also hear the word 'hydrogen' and instantly think of the hindenburg and the h-bomb. After doin some research I found out that hydrogen really isn't that combustable unless it is compressed..and if it does happen to catch fire, it burns extremely fast, and doesn't radiate much heat. In comparison, a hydrogen fire in the trunk would probably burn out before it even damaged the rear window...however a gasoline fire in the trunk would consume the entire car and melt the back window.

    Here are some related links.

    Some dudes selling this same contraption for $500!
    Some info on hydrogen compared to gasoline, and the hindenburg disaster
    more info on hydrogen and hydrogen cars
    Yet another link with info on hydrogen cars of the future

    Anyhow. Lemme know what y'all think. Thanks

    Speers


  2. #2
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    As interesting as this sounds, i'm still somewhat doubtful, I'm not concerned about gas milage as much as power. If this were a truly effective way to increase gas milage i would do it, but i want to know how (if any) negative effects it might have to the emissions systems and Gross horsepower. still very interesting....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeersSV
    Hey y'all. This really has nothing to do with carputers obviously, but I'm sure alot of you will find this very interesting if you don't already know about it.

    A few weeks ago I found this page on how to pump hydrogen into your engine and possibly triple your gas mileage. For those that don't want to read that entire page(so much reading), here is how it works in a nutshell.

    You place a tank of water in your engine compartment with two carriage bolts inserted into the top. Here are a few pictures of mine.



    You add an electrolyte(conductor) to the water. Battery acid, baking soda, or salt will work..although battery acid seems to be the most efficient. When a current is added, a chemical reaction called electrolysis occurs. Bubbles will start to form from each of the bolts. One will release hydrogen, and the other will release oxygen(which just so happens to be the two propellants in the space shuttle). So this creates the H & O and basically all you have to do after that is attach a hose to the top of the tank with a small pump(windshield wiper pump) to suck the H & O into the air intake and your engine does the rest. It's not quite that simple obviously as I will find out soon enough when I go to put this thing in my car...but it's suppose to triple your gas mileage and I figured this is the kind of project alot of you would like to take on.

    On that note, has anyone ever tried this? Alot of people I know assume right away that it won't work even though they know nothing of chemistry, cars, or common sense. They assume that just because more people aren't doing it that it's not a sound idea. They also hear the word 'hydrogen' and instantly think of the hindenburg and the h-bomb. After doin some research I found out that hydrogen really isn't that combustable unless it is compressed..and if it does happen to catch fire, it burns extremely fast, and doesn't radiate much heat. In comparison, a hydrogen fire in the trunk would probably burn out before it even damaged the rear window...however a gasoline fire in the trunk would consume the entire car and melt the back window.

    Here are some related links.

    Some dudes selling this same contraption for $500!
    Some info on hydrogen compared to gasoline, and the hindenburg disaster
    more info on hydrogen and hydrogen cars
    Yet another link with info on hydrogen cars of the future

    Anyhow. Lemme know what y'all think. Thanks

    Speers

    Let us know how you get on!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hcomplyr
    As interesting as this sounds, i'm still somewhat doubtful, I'm not concerned about gas milage as much as power. If this were a truly effective way to increase gas milage i would do it, but i want to know how (if any) negative effects it might have to the emissions systems and Gross horsepower. still very interesting....
    What this seems to do is create a cheap version of NOS (although the chemical properties would not be quite right). In either case would not the ECM need reprogramming?

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    Well the ECU in cars goes by a Air/fuel table thats calculated by the O2 sensors, most cars can adjust the timing and fuel trim to some degree. I just read the whole page and the system described claimed it works on carburated vehicles, I worry what the added hydrogen will do to a Fuel injected car. I mean my car's stock computer can handle up to 7-8 PSI of boost but this is handled much differently. It might think the car is going into a lean condition and retard the timing therefore reducing power. Or in a worse case, detonate in the intake manifold due to the low temperature neccessary to ignite hydrogen. I'm still not convinced, although the theory makes sense, I'm not willing to make my car (which is my only car) a test subject.
    Good luck with that one

  6. #6
    Maximum Bitrate binary.h4x's Avatar
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    Thats a great way to blow your car up. Talking about common sense, you are chemically releasing two quite explosive gasses into a compresses container....next to a VERY hot engine....see where this is leading? 2. What happens when you run out of water? 3. Something about running an electric motor around hydrogen and oxygen scares me. 4. what about engine knock? 5. When the ECU sees more oxygen its gonna release MORE gas... so gas mileage will actually go down.
    2007 Honda Fit Sport 1.5L SOHC-VTEC

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    let me first declare that I do not know much about cars...which is half the reason I posted here...to see what you all think about this idea.

    #1 binary...when you talk about "you are chemically releasing two quite explosive gasses into a compresses container....next to a VERY hot engine....see where this is leading?
    I should clarify..the tank I've built is not pressurized...nor are the gases(pressurized) until they hit the engine. I'm going to be placing it where my battery used to be, which is fairly distant from the engine...I'm not saying it'll definitely work...but a pessimistic attitude will do me no good here....nor will an over-optimistic attitude. Just gotta see what happens I guess.

    #2 Also, the water would need to be refilled every two tanks of gas or so(depending on how well it works, if at all). Refilling with water is MUCH cheaper than refilling with gas.

    #3 There is no electric motor, unless you're refering to the windshield wiper pump. This will be one area where I will definitely test outside of my car to see if there are any problems.

    #4 I have no idea what engine knock is...this is one area where having my uncle(mechanic for the county) help me will be very very important.

    #5 Surely adjustments will have to be made....maybe it won't be possible...who knows...once again...that portion of the project will mostly be handled by a friend or my uncle who knows about these things.

  8. #8
    Maximum Bitrate binary.h4x's Avatar
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    not trying to be a pessimest, just trying to help you stay alive .

    #1 The pressure thing, ok, when the engine is idling, it sucks in less air than when its at 4k RPM. If the electrode keeps pushing out gas at a constant rate, then its gotta go somewhere right? Try to wire the electrode to fire in pulses, then you could wire it to the ignition system so that it pulses faster at higher RPM.

    #3 Yes the windshield fluid motor is exactly what im referring to, try maybe a fuel pump, or something made to pump explosive material....

    #4 Engine knock is when the air/fuel mixture in your engine explodes when its not supposed to... and is quite bad for the engine. Buy increasing the explosive mixture there is more chance of a premature explosion.

    #5 Try injecting the H+0 between the engine and O2 sensor so that it doesnt see the extra molecules.

    Also ANYthing under your hood (im guessing thats where its going) is expected to get hot, so be careful, also, when pvc gets hots and starts to melt, it releases TOXIC fumes, so be careful with that. I quite interested in this project, just dont wanna see ya go down like the Hindenberg .

    BTW what kind of Honda is this going into? I <3 Hondas :P
    2007 Honda Fit Sport 1.5L SOHC-VTEC

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    right on...I appreciate your concerns and advice. They are definitely not falling on deaf-ears.

    It's going in a crappy old teal/rust '89 honda accord. Right now it is my only car...but in a few months, I may be willing to sacrafice it for the good of the cause.

  10. #10
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    yeah thats another thing, is there going to be a variable amount of hydrogen injected or is it going to be a constant stream that would be just enough to supply the engine at highway crusing speeds (1300 - 2500 RPM) because it doesn't seem to effect city milage

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