Thread: So...America IS hated?

mmm all this Anti-Americanism make me even more proud to be American.

Originally Posted by will1384

Hey lets all move to Amsterdam, cough, cough

I'm feeling that...

Why u makin a mini war out of this.haha
Move to some island somewhere and then you can be as free as you want.
Free means no rules and we have a whole bunch here. Greece is cool and America rules and is the best place on earth.
As far as my 2 country butt knows at least.
hehe

Originally Posted by Wiredwrx

A quick look at your constituation reveals the following. (While some of things may actually be different then what actually occurs in Greece, I am only looking at the Constitution)

The death penalty is available for "Political crimes". I assume that the Greek courts (if they follow stare decises, which I doubt because most EU states do not), or Legislature has defined Political Crimes somewhere, but I can't find it. Political crimes can include acts of terrorism and "subversion", yet in America, these crimes alone are not punishable with Death

There is no personal protection from searches (Unlike our 4th amendment right), though the house is protected against warrantless searches.

There is no right against Self Incrimination, to Representation free of charge, or the right to remain silent when arrested in your Constitution. There is no right to a public trial, or to a jury trial, or the right to reasonable bail after arrest.

There is no right to bear Arms (Yeap that is the Second amendment in the US Constitution)

Article 4, (6) Every Greek able to bear arms shall be obliged to assist in the defence of the nation, as provided by law. Not sure, but it seems that every citizen is required to serve in the military. I may be wrong, but it seems that way. Not every American is required to serve in the military.

This is just by looking at the Constituation. Mind you, the Constitution was ratified in 1926, 150 years after the US. While that means little, a look at the Greek constitution mirrors in many respects the US Constitution.

Following on from Seth, in the U.S.:

1) you can legally walk down a street with a loaded gun but a bar owner in New York can get arrested just for putting out ashtrays

2) Can't drink in most places (that I'm aware of) until the age of 21

3) you can have sex between 16-18 and be in a porn film, but you can't actually watch one until you're 21

4) a president can take office by electoral college vote

5) people serve longer sentences for marijuana use than for murder (Schlossler)

6) you can make hardcore porn in California, but get arrested if you mail it to the wrong state

Originally Posted by Seth

In your frustration to defend your thesis you made a fool out of yourself. Where did you find this crap? And no link?
I'll give you some links:

http://www.parliament.gr/english/politeuma/syntagma.pdf

http://confinder.richmond.edu/greek_2001.html

Find me what you said exactly in there and I'll stfu.

Let me start first by asking how old you are? I ask because it is quite obvious from your excited statements that you can't have an inteligent conversation with out attempting to somehow demean the other individual. I have not resorted to name calling, degrading statements, and plain childish behaviour.

Cheap propaganda is not in my agenda so support your claims with solid proof next time.

Well, here is the link where I read your Constitution.

http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/gr00000_.html

Silly me, perhaps I used a different version of your Constitution. Is there more then one? It seems there is. How the hell am I supposed to figure out that you guys change your constitution almost yearly.

The only death penalty mentioned in the constitution is for felonies in time of war. Prove me wrong.

While you've made the death penalty a routine.

Article 7 [Nullum Crimen Sine Lege]
(3) General confiscation is prohibited. The death penalty shall not be imposed for political crimes save for compound ones.

Yes, the death penalty in America is routine, but only for the most serious of offenses. Murder in particular, save for some Serious crimes in limited situations in very few states. The one that sticks in my mind is the Rape of Children can be punished with death. My point was that a "Political" crime is not punishable by death in this country. I made no reference to other crimes. It shows our Political Freedom.

Are you telling me that if you go on an airport and you look suspicious to a police officer he won't search you because of the "4th Amendment Right" ?

No, that is not what I said. But if you are walking down the street minding your own business, they can't search you. That is guaranteed by the 4th Amendment. Also, an officer can't stop you and search you for mere suspician. He must have reasonable suspician to initially stopyou, but he can not search with out Probable Cause, which is significantly more then mere suspicion. In any event, the Greek Constitution grants nothing close to any protection against being stopped and searched. Is the 4th Amendment absolute. Nope. Will it protect you against ALL searches. Nope. But it does protect against some searches, and that is more then the Greek Constitution.

Funny how you didn't mention any of the other rights I mentioned. You know, Bail, Jury, Self incrimination, Representation by an attorney. Shall we assume that Greece has no such rights, and us Americans have more rights, and thefore protection and freedom.

Read Article 6.
Should I say.....Guandanamo Bay?

You could, if you spelled it correctly. And, article 6 of what? Your Constitution protects Greek citizens, our Constitution protects American citizens. Wether Guantanimo bay is a violation of International law is a debate we can get into sometime, but was not the focus of my statements. I was merely comparing our respective constitutional rights and freedoms. Guantanimo does not restrict my personal freedoms in any way, shape, or form.

And you consider that a handicap? Wow....just wow.
You're trying to convince me that a peacefull and "free" society is built upon arms?

I never made any assumption, and tried to convince you of anything other then that Americans have more freedom. I never stated it was better, or worse, or the way to have a "peacefull" (I never once mentioned peacfull ANYWHERE. Now who is making up things) to have arms. I simply pointed out that the right to bear arms is a freedom that Greece does not have and Americans do. And since you are so concerned with the merauding Turks, perhaps the freedom to bear arms would make you feel better.

Only males are obliged to serve in the military and that's because we total 10million and we have a VERY agressive Turkey to deal with. So more or less your statement is true.

More or less? You mean, I am right. You must serve in the military. I never said it was good or bad, just pointing out that you lack the freedom to decide wether to join the military or not.

[quote]Again wrong and missleading. The first "temporary" constitution came into being on January 1st, 1822 after almost 400 years of Turkish slavery (since 1453). http://www.parliament.gr/english/politeuma/default.asp

I apologize. I failed to realize, thinking that Constitutions are like the US constitution and never really change, that the Greek Constitution has been changed time and time again. It seems as if the Greek Constitution has been changed and modified many times over. I wonder when it will be changed in such a way as to remove all your freedoms, cause the only true protection the Greek Constitution guarantees is that the form of government of Greece can't/won't change.(http://www.parliament.gr/english/politeuma/default.asp) At least in the US the chance of the Constitution changing like that is much slimmer.

Since you think that having established a constitution in 1776 (IIRC) is an achievement (48 years ahead of Greece) then tell me who invented democracy and when and I'll stfu again.

Wow, you sound like the Father from my Big Fat Greek Wedding. I know, the Greeks invented everything. That is fine. I am not debating that, cause I think it is irrelevent. But the US Constitution is the oldest Constitution still in existance. Does that mean it is better. No. I was just pointing it out.

Sparta. Early 7th Century, BC (http://www.elysiumgates.com/~helena/Revolution.html) Will you know STFU?

Also it is extremelly provoking and arrogant to say that the US is the only free country on the world. It's insulting too and it won't be left unanswered.

Please point out were I made a statement that "THE US IS THE ONLY FREE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD" I never said such a thing and never would. Your delusional statement indicates that you are not reading what I have written, but instead would like to interperate my words in a manner which upsets you. I have said no such thing, and implied no such thing. I did say that we are the MOST free. Not the ONLY free.

Finally complementing the above it's comical to say:

With bank loan money like you I can also buy big trucks and eat anything I like whenever I feel like.
Unbelievable huh?

Btw how old are you? Just curious.

Cheers

Then why don't people in foregin Countries buy large vehicles, with bug honking engines, and eat fast food like us americans. I know it isn't freedom. Is it money. Is it gas. What is it. You gotta asmit, per capita, there are a lot more Hummers and Expeditions etc in the US then there are in any other Foreign Country.

And my age, while not relevent, is 33.