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Thread: *****ing Cop A$$holes

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    The issue I have with your arguments is that when I charge for my services or you charge a price for your carputer the purchasor has 'choice'. They don't have to have a carputer or a web site or brand A versus brand B and so they have the right to choose.

    However legal services are required not through choice but through necessity. If I am wrongly accused of a crime I have to find an attorney to defend me - else I go to prison (say). The problem is that the chances of me being found guilty or innocent (to a greater degree) depends upon my ability to pay. Sure, it's not all down to costs, some bad attorneys (read incompetent) can still win a case if the evidence is stacked in my favor but all other things being equal a good prosecuter can beat a bad attoney when all other things are equal and that IS JUST PLAIN WRONG. It's not JUSTICE.

    I don't know enough about the legal systems of other countries to say which is better, but like your Health Care systems, it ain't the BEST by a long way.
    EDIT: Explain what you mean by Necessity? What makes it a Necessity?

    Our Health Care is not the best, our Legal System is. Again, since I can find "Better" health care systems, I can say our health care system is bad. If you can find a BETTER legal system, let me know. Until then, it is the best.

    Now, going with your train of thought, is it JUSTICE if your attorney, or perhaps, a GUILTY persons attorney, is high priced, or even if not high priced, is better then the prosecutor, and gets off, is that justice? It is IMPOSSIBLE to measure who is better and worse, and rediculous to think that Justice requires EQUAL skills on both sides. Andm, your ideas about payment and solutions, doesn't address the differing skills of each and every attorney. There is just no way to make it equal, yet it is still fair and just.

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by icecore View Post
    In basically all European countries I know you only have to pay for your lawyer if you loose the case, otherwise the person that sued you/state. Makes much more sense if you ask me.
    That is untrue,

    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/...egal_costs.htm

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/wfbcjnet.txt

    "The rights of the accused at trial process
    begin with the right to counsel. The defendant has
    the right to choose one or more attorneys to
    represent him but must, in essence, pay for an
    attorney of his choice. All cases involving
    deprivation of liberty guarantee the suspect the
    right to state appointed legal representation if
    the suspect is unable to afford counsel."

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics...al%20Draft.doc

    http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/cas...urt_bel_en.htm

    "Lawyers' fees are not included in court fees and costs. They depend on the contract between the lawyer and the client. Each party pays his or her own counsel's fees."

    http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/legal.html

    In Germany, the gov pays the fees ONLY IF ACQUITED.

    Except for Germany, they are ALL similar to the US in the fact that people pay for thier attornies.

    So, that statement just IS NOT TRUE.

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  3. #163
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    So you are telling me that succesful attorneys don't charge more?

    Is it right that a better attorney should charge more than a less succesful attorney - the answer of course is NO they shouldn't. This is one area that should be regulated and controlled so that everyone gets the same quality of representation. In the world of Supply and Demand, attorneys who win cases get to charge more and are thus out of reach of average Joe - they get to defend guilty high rollers and get them acquited because they are cleverer than the prosecutor (I'm generalizing). Average Joe can only afford new, or unsuccesful attorneys and is less likely to get acquitted as a result.

    In almost any other field, the better you are the more you earn. In the legal profession however that corrupts the system of justice. Sure, some attorneys will take the occasional pro bono so they 'look good' or may even do it out of a sense of public spirit.

    Oh, by your last post it sounds like Germany has a better legal system - the Attorney fees get paid if you are acquitted - sounds like a good system to me.

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  4. #164
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    Since when is cheaper better?

    And really wouldnt it just work out to everyone who is a lawyer not caring?
    If i suck i get paid the same so why try and be good?
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    So you are telling me that succesful attorneys don't charge more?
    Nope, I think they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    Is it right that a better attorney should charge more than a less succesful attorney - the answer of course is NO they shouldn't.
    Why shouldn't they charge more? Good mechanics charge more, good plumbers charge more, good plastic surgeons charge more, if you are GOOD at what you do, you get to charge more then someone who doesn't. Welcome to America, where people are free to charge what they want, when they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    This is one area that should be regulated and controlled so that everyone gets the same quality of representation.

    In the world of Supply and Demand, attorneys who win cases get to charge more and are thus out of reach of average Joe - they get to defend guilty high rollers and get them acquited because they are cleverer than the prosecutor (I'm generalizing). Average Joe can only afford new, or unsuccesful attorneys and is less likely to get acquitted as a result.

    In almost any other field, the better you are the more you earn. In the legal profession however that corrupts the system of justice. Sure, some attorneys will take the occasional pro bono so they 'look good' or may even do it out of a sense of public spirit.
    I have to think about that. I am, however, apposed to the government telling ANYONE what they can charge and what they can not charge, and how much money they can make in a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    Oh, by your last post it sounds like Germany has a better legal system - the Attorney fees get paid if you are acquitted - sounds like a good system to me.
    Actually, just because Germany pays when there is an acquital, does NOT necessarily mean the system is better. What makes the US Justice System the best is many things, innocent until proven guilty, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, etc.... It is not just a single thing that makes it better, or a single thing about a different legal system that makes it better.
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  6. #166
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    Oh man I'm too tired to read all this so you win. I'm done with this thread.
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