Should I move from cf to om?

**HiJackZX1** · 10-08-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by ws6vert

So you have two boards with great GPUs, but CF can't use them. What benefit is that? There is no denying that GPU acceleration will increase performance and efficiency. From his description, he wants multi-zone. He stated he already has 2 pcs each for his passengers and wanted to condense that to 1. Thats multi-zone. CF currently cannot do this. If it could, I still say you would see performance drops each time another zone begins navigating and using system resources, because of CF's dependence on the CPU. Bottom line, if your build includes a GPU capable of OpenGL 2.0 (practically anything made since late 1990s), then why not make use of it?

And we have a few skins in progress, screen shots of some have been posted in the skin sub-forum.

That is true, but there is an update that will enable Multi-zone, and that update is almost here (CF is on 3.1 and 3.2 is slatted to have multi-zone). Right now OM is missing too many other features. Your Multi-zone doesnt justify all the other features he will be loosing. Also, the multi-zone aspect in CF does not suffer from performance drops using dual or multi-zone. Maybe on a slow ATOM based system, yes, but like you said he is running a great board, with a beefy processor. The plugin that creates the multizone experience is very light. Its literally almost instantanious. The only issues I have had with it, is the push feature, which I dont use anyways and I doubt TheGuv will use either, a feature OM doesnt even have in multi-zone.

Like I said before, try them both and see which you like. I can go back and fourth on all the negatives and positives of both frontends, but in the end, its TheGuvs experience that should be taken into effect and determine which is best for him. WS6Vert, JustChat_1 and me are way to involved with our frontends so we are obviously always going to bash each other (How long has this war been going on?). I will say that I cant wait till the multi-zone is unlocked in CF 3.2 (Yes multi-zone is in CF 3.1, just locked), then you will not be able to use that card anymore.

**ws6vert** · 10-08-2010, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Right now OM is missing too many other features. Your Multi-zone doesnt justify all the other features he will be loosing.

What features is he losing? Everything he listed OM supports. Again, my argument stands that OM sets itself apart from the rest with its hardware acceleration.

CF recently did a plugin development contest. There was only 1 plugin created that was new for the contest. Where is the innovation? Where is the CF team generating the possibilities for plugin developers to design on there platform. Lets face it, with the increase in tablet technology, in order to keep the carPC hobby alive, there has to be innovation. There has to be something that retains the users interests, and captures the interests of others. For example, there is no doubt the majority of the members on this forum are RR users. There has been no innovation in that arena for a long time, and its hemoraghing interest in the hobby, evident by the statistic that the most members ever online was nearly 2 years ago, there is hardly any growth unfortunately.

**TheGuv** · 10-08-2010, 01:51 PM

Hold up- does the popular via itx boards support OpenGL? I was under the impression the best graphics on one of them was the Unichrome chipset which didn't do OpenGL 2.0? At least that's what I found when using XBMC on one!

XBMC's biggest issue is OpenGL, not just because low powered ITX systems but also Linux is pretty painful to correctly setup with most cards supporting OpenGL. There's so many people who've had to change hardware just to get XBMC running and tbh, a lot of users go off the idea as soon as the hit these issues.

And IMO your biggest custom base will be from those running Linux.

I used the Zotac setup because I wanted to future proof (now starting to be glad I did!) and to have a useful system outside of the car if I ever decided to go a different route in the future... At least the Zotac will be a decent PC in the house or as a MC.

I got the Zotac setup in pre-atom times and was the most powerful ITX solution.

If I wanted a basic CarPC (which is all anyone needs), I would have got one of the Via boards or maybe the Jetway.

And tbh, CF and all the other bits on my CarPC don't even make a mark on the performance graphs, so I'm not sure why you think it's power hungry- after all it runs fine on very simple systems for others.

Just because CF doesn't use OpenGL- don't discard it... It is the most userfriendly interface going and looks better than all the others out there. Why do you think people who use different front ends try to make it look like CF? lol.

I don't want transitions on my menus etc, I want it to be there right after I've pressed the screen- and CF does this perfectly.

I'm not a total CF fan by the way! I agree that suppor and development need vast improvements... It's wrong that you have to rely on 3rd parties to develop a package you've paid for...

**ws6vert** · 10-08-2010, 02:39 PM

Just pointing out the differences. You have a very powerful carPC, with a very advanced graphics processor, that you could certainly make use of. Thats the biggest difference in CF and OM at the moment. OM will soon realease version 0.8, and I'd say it has achieved quite alot of innovation, and more to come before its official 1.0 release. And if the basic graphics employed right now are not of your taste, well we have a solution for that as well.

**tripzero** · 10-08-2010, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by TheGuv

And tbh, CF and all the other bits on my CarPC don't even make a mark on the performance graphs, so I'm not sure why you think it's power hungry- after all it runs fine on very simple systems for others.

I'd really like to see a proper CF profile. How long it takes to start, it's memory footprint, CPU load average, how many times per second it wakes up to operate, etc. Anyone up to the challenge? Then compare that side by side with OM.

When I tried CF, I did note that it's huge the entire program was larger than the entire LinuxICE iso (ie, >300mb), It took forever to start and I don't recall the memory footprint but I'm willing to bet it's pretty big.

**HiJackZX1** · 10-08-2010, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by ws6vert

What features is he losing? Everything he listed OM supports. Again, my argument stands that OM sets itself apart from the rest with its hardware acceleration.

CF recently did a plugin development contest. There was only 1 plugin created that was new for the contest. Where is the innovation? Where is the CF team generating the possibilities for plugin developers to design on there platform. Lets face it, with the increase in tablet technology, in order to keep the carPC hobby alive, there has to be innovation. There has to be something that retains the users interests, and captures the interests of others. For example, there is no doubt the majority of the members on this forum are RR users. There has been no innovation in that arena for a long time, and its hemoraghing interest in the hobby, evident by the statistic that the most members ever online was nearly 2 years ago, there is hardly any growth unfortunately.

Oh gosh, your bringing up a poorly advertised contest? That contest also wasnt for just any plug-in, it was only for "connected" style plugin. Dont leave out information.

That is true, I think the Car PC arena is pretty much locked with current users. New users are most likely going to find solutions that are less "techy". Its a fact that can not be avoided. I think that is the one reason Centrafuse Inc. is kind of focusing on OEM, and looking into venturing onto other OS'es. I can not comment on RR, because I do not use it, nor do I want to try. Everytime I ask a question on RR, its answered with technical stuff I dont care to know about or deal with.

Now what I will ask, is how is that relevelant to this? OM can not be put onto a tablet, or should I say, it cant be done and still have multizone, not without exotic hardware. My install has 6 soundcards, 6 graphic cards, and six touchscreens. I tablet will never be able to do that, unless you take a bunch and maybe network them together. In saying that, I think OM and CF still have a future for people that want multi zone installs. Problem is that market is even smaller.

Originally Posted by ws6vert

Just pointing out the differences. You have a very powerful carPC, with a very advanced graphics processor, that you could certainly make use of. Thats the biggest difference in CF and OM at the moment. OM will soon realease version 0.8, and I'd say it has achieved quite alot of innovation, and more to come before its official 1.0 release. And if the basic graphics employed right now are not of your taste, well we have a solution for that as well.

Your system is most def more then enough. Its overkill in a small package, thats why I love Zotac boards. i will agree with WS6VERT and say it is a problem that CF doesnt take advantage of the GPUs power, but in all honesty it only affects people with slow systems (ATOM systems with INTEL graphics). Certain AMD based systems will suffer also, even though my AMD Turion 64 x2 worked perfectly. Maybe otehrs use lower RAM then I do?

You know though, if OM where as easy to use as CF and also look good, I would maybe make a jump. Let me ask, what is the situation with Nav and Phone? I am a avid user of Destinator (with updated maps) and phone. Where does OM stand intergration. Destinator on CF is a part of CF so it looks good. iGuidance I have never liked.

**RipplingHurst** · 10-08-2010, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by ws6vert

What features in CF are important for you, and what hardware is your CarPC comprised of?

Playlist management and autoplaylist creation, capable or importint itunes/wmp/winamp playlist while keeping ratings

videoclip playlist management and idem above;

cool visualizations.

Can open mobile use milkdrop? or top it? That would be awesome...

**HiJackZX1** · 10-08-2010, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by tripzero

I'd really like to see a proper CF profile. How long it takes to start, it's memory footprint, CPU load average, how many times per second it wakes up to operate, etc. Anyone up to the challenge? Then compare that side by side with OM.

When I tried CF, I did note that it's huge the entire program was larger than the entire LinuxICE iso (ie, >300mb), It took forever to start and I don't recall the memory footprint but I'm willing to bet it's pretty big.

UGH, and theres the other one, always bashing CF...... LOL.... Again it all depends on the system, and what the user is using. If its for basic, you can actually delete the plug-ins you don't need since CF is modular now. Before (CF 2) everything was one large core. The less plug ins you have the faster it is on startup. Even with me using so many plug ins my start up was acceptable.

OH stop it.... people now a days have more then enough storage as far as HDD space. The first startup of CF is slow, but its also configuring everything. If you had issues after that, then it all stems back to deleting what you don't need so CF doesn't try to load it.

**HiJackZX1** · 10-08-2010, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by RipplingHurst

Playlist management and autoplaylist creation, capable or importint itunes/wmp/winamp playlist while keeping ratings

videoclip playlist management and idem above;

cool visualizations.

Can open mobile use milkdrop? or top it? That would be awesome...

Yea I have to say I hated the visual system in CF, but once i got a decent setup, all the Sonique visuals now work flawlessly. Some are even editable. I modded one to make the CF logo do these cool effects.

Milkdrop would be awesome. I think you, Ripplehurst had limited luck on getting Milkdrop to run on CF.

**ws6vert** · 10-08-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by HiJackZX1

Now what I will ask, is how is that relevelant to this? OM can not be put onto a tablet, or should I say, it cant be done and still have multizone, not without exotic hardware. My install has 6 soundcards, 6 graphic cards, and six touchscreens. I tablet will never be able to do that, unless you take a bunch and maybe network them together. In saying that, I think OM and CF still have a future for people that want multi zone installs. Problem is that market is even smaller.

OM is cross-platform so it can be run on a tablet with the proper underlying OS. My point was over the past year innovation has stalled, and users are loosing interest. Like you keep saying CF is going to make an update to allow multi-zone. Why has that taken so long? That was one of the first things identified when OM was in the planning stages. With all of the new technology, front-ends should be expected to keep up if they intend to continually build on their user base. If they don't, then users are going to become bored with it because it doesnt offer anything exciting. Thats why we started the Innovation Vault thread, to inform users of the work, and cutting edge technology that OM employs to make it stand out from the rest. This along with OM being open source, we hope will bring more interest and enthusiasm to the hobby resulting in a better user experience for everyone on MP3car as a whole.