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Thread: Video for Multi-zone: Opinions & Ideas please.

  1. #1
    Maximum Bitrate jmullan99's Avatar
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    Video for Multi-zone: Opinions & Ideas please.

    I have spent more than enough time cruising the MP3Car forums, and it looks like Open Mobile would be the best choice (and the leader) in mult-zone tech.

    My Zotac board has one PCI enhanced X16 slot, which when used, would disable the on-board video (no choice). Most boards suggest a minimum PSU capable of 250-300 watts. Wow, this is a car PC after all.

    USB video cards, seem to not support OpenGL. And pretty much all the units I read up on (and their related reviews) says that they suffer when used for full screen video.

    Ultimately I wish to have 3 zones. I really don't want to put in a full size, full power desktop unit.

    What would be the suggested route? Do I really need OpenGL (no intense gaming going on in my car). Is the source info wrong about watching video via USB?

    I invite all to please share their ideas and experiences. It's almost that time of year I can get out and start the upgrades!

    John
    ZOTAC G43ITX-A-E 2.5ghz Core i3 2GB 160GB SSD
    Win7 Ultimate - OpenMobile - Directed HD - Wifi
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  2. #2
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    I had a thread around here somewhere on my experiences installing OM on a netbook. Basically, it sucked. No opengl support, but that's just because it was netbook. No one wanted them for anything even semi-graphical.

    I did have a usb driven touchscreen (power/video/data). It couldn't even run the visuals inside winamp, and lagged on visuals inside wmp (it caused graphic errors to pop up). I didn't even want to try processing videos. But, it all worked ok on the netbook alone.

    I know it's not a 'glorified' factual post of the ins/outs of usb video, but my experience on usb video didn't go well. Take this with a grain of salt though... Maybe the actual usb video cards are better?

  3. #3
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmullan99 View Post
    I have spent more than enough time cruising the MP3Car forums, and it looks like Open Mobile would be the best choice (and the leader) in mult-zone tech.
    CI has dropped CF 3.5 and the multi-zone is garbage. They stripped so many features out of it that its almost laughable. They also handicapped how many pages you can have and what content and features you can have on the rear zones.

    My Zotac board has one PCI enhanced X16 slot, which when used, would disable the on-board video (no choice). Most boards suggest a minimum PSU capable of 250-300 watts. Wow, this is a car PC after all.
    Mine does too, but it also has a PCI slot. I decided to go with PCI based video card because they use less power. PCIe tends to be power hungry.

    USB video cards, seem to not support OpenGL. And pretty much all the units I read up on (and their related reviews) says that they suffer when used for full screen video.
    I disagree about this statement. You simply have to shop very carefully. There are multitudes of different type of USB>VGA adapters. What you want to look for is one that has a DisplayLink DL-195 chipset. I use 4 of them on my setup and the fullscreen is flawless. They also have built in DDR Ram, so I guess that makes the difference. The only issue I seem to have is that when starting up the PC, sometimes one of the adapters will say no device. So I have to unplug it and plug it back in. If I use hibernation though, that issue doesnt exist. Its most likely a driver issue, but since it doesnt bother me, I havent fixed it.

    Ultimately I wish to have 3 zones. I really don't want to put in a full size, full power desktop unit.
    Now for me, because I wanted the PCI slot and all MoBos seem to only come with PCIe now a days, I had to get a full desktop board that had both PCI and PCIe. I am sure that you can use a mini-itx though. So far I have been running mine for almost a week and all zones with the handicapped CF 3.5 are working flawlessly. I did have an issue where the PC would restart on its own, but it turns out it was the screen saver causing it, so I disabled that, and all is good.

    What would be the suggested route? Do I really need OpenGL (no intense gaming going on in my car). Is the source info wrong about watching video via USB?
    First off, I am a little concerned about that PCIe card. They can use up to 200 watts. That may under power your setup. As you know the biggest issue with car pc is powering. We are limited to technically 360 watts unless you use a desktop PSU and an inverter.

    I have been playing with HD video, and even simple game emulators and a few 3D arcade emulators and the USB>VGA adapters handle it without issue. I think maybe it is also dependant on system Ram, which I have maxed out to 4GB. If you have less, I would up it to 4.

    I invite all to please share their ideas and experiences. It's almost that time of year I can get out and start the upgrades!

    John
    Hope my comments were helpful. Havent talked to you in a long time, hope all is well.
    Nirwana Project, the Android/Win 7 hybrid system!

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    Maximum Bitrate jmullan99's Avatar
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    Thanks HiJackZX1. Correct, we haven't chatted lately. But I've kept my eye on you, and your recent issues. I should be the one asking you if all is well.

    I will do a little more research into the DisplayLink chipset dongles. I was worried a bit because OM likes OpenGL. I will order one up and give it a shot. Worst case I dump it on eBay and try again.
    ZOTAC G43ITX-A-E 2.5ghz Core i3 2GB 160GB SSD
    Win7 Ultimate - OpenMobile - Directed HD - Wifi
    OMMaps + MS GPS Puck - WiFi via LTE Android phone
    2 Zones - Matrix Orbital LCD - Arduino - Build Pics

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    Maximum Bitrate Borte's Avatar
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    I have a Lilliput UM-70 USB monitor here and it runs OM just fine with all the OpenGL graphics, It's connected to my desktop though so I don't know how it will be affected by the CPU speed.

    But also remember that if you want to use the full zone setup in OM you should also incorporate multiple soundcards to get the whole experience.

    Just make sure that regardless of what graphical solution you go for it has to support OpenGL 2++ (yes OM has a software fallback but that will be way slower than OpenGL).
    Failure is not an option...
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  6. #6
    Maximum Bitrate jmullan99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borte View Post
    But also remember that if you want to use the full zone setup in OM you should also incorporate multiple soundcards to get the whole experience.
    I was aware of that. I have a pair of USB headphones that I plan to try. They appear as another sound card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borte View Post
    Just make sure that regardless of what graphical solution you go for it has to support OpenGL 2++ (yes OM has a software fallback but that will be way slower than OpenGL).
    That's my whole issue. Finding a capable USB unit. On my board the on-board video WILL be disabled if a card is in, and besides the power, I have yet to see one that does 3 displays.

    By slower, do you mean a) on the non OpenGL 2++ only and/or b) too slow for general movie playback?

    Thanks.
    ZOTAC G43ITX-A-E 2.5ghz Core i3 2GB 160GB SSD
    Win7 Ultimate - OpenMobile - Directed HD - Wifi
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  7. #7
    Maximum Bitrate Borte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmullan99 View Post
    I was aware of that. I have a pair of USB headphones that I plan to try. They appear as another sound card.
    Nice. I never thought of that but that would be a great addition to the backseats, just plug you headphones in and you get the extra zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmullan99 View Post
    By slower, do you mean a) on the non OpenGL 2++ only and/or b) too slow for general movie playback?
    Not quite sure what you mean here.
    Movie playbeack should be fast even if you don't have a opengl compatible system since this is rendered using it's own video overlay but the overall experience in OM would be a lot slower (usability).
    Failure is not an option...
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  8. #8
    Maximum Bitrate jmullan99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borte View Post
    Nice. I never thought of that but that would be a great addition to the backseats, just plug you headphones in and you get the extra zones.
    Yes. When I seen them on the rack I just had to try one. Sound is quite acceptable too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borte View Post
    Not quite sure what you mean here.
    Movie playbeack should be fast even if you don't have a opengl compatible system since this is rendered using it's own video overlay but the overall experience in OM would be a lot slower (usability).
    Okay. My typical passengers will either watch movies or listen to music. But I still want them to have an acceptable level of usability with OM. My first test is going to be with the Diamond BVU195 (should be easy enough to google for those interested). Specs are below:


    Code:
    General
    Device Type: Graphics adapter 
    Enclosure Type: External 
    Interface Type: Hi-Speed USB 
    
    Video Output
    Supported Display Graphics: UXGA (1600x1200) 
    API Supported: OpenGL 2.0 
    Digital Video Standard: Digital Visual Interface (DVI) 
    
    Expansion / Connectivity
    Interfaces: 1 x VGA - 15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15), 1 x DVI-I - 29 pin combined DVI 
    
    Miscellaneous
    Cables Included: 1 x DVI-VGA adapter, 1 x USB extension cable 
    Compliant Standards: Plug and Play 
    
    Software / System Requirements
    Software Included: Drivers & Utilities OS Required Apple MacOS X, Microsoft Windows XP, Microsoft Windows 2000, Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 
    Min Processor Type: 1.2 GHz 
    Peripheral / Interface Devices: CD-ROM 
    System Requirements Details - RAM 512 MB - HD 30 MB
    NOTE: I have seen these specs mentioned also.
    GPU : DL195
    Max Resolution : 2048x1152 or 1900x1200 32 bit True Color resolution

    In either case, it seems like it will meet my needs.
    ZOTAC G43ITX-A-E 2.5ghz Core i3 2GB 160GB SSD
    Win7 Ultimate - OpenMobile - Directed HD - Wifi
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  9. #9
    Maximum Bitrate Borte's Avatar
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    Yeah looks like this should work just fine. When you do test it, post your results back here.
    Failure is not an option...
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    The only full multizone / multiscreen cross platform open source Front End -> OpenMobile

  10. #10
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmullan99 View Post
    Thanks HiJackZX1. Correct, we haven't chatted lately. But I've kept my eye on you, and your recent issues. I should be the one asking you if all is well.

    I will do a little more research into the DisplayLink chipset dongles. I was worried a bit because OM likes OpenGL. I will order one up and give it a shot. Worst case I dump it on eBay and try again.
    I am doing much better. Unfortunately when i get depressed, I get depressed pretty bad. Now I have gotten over it though, and moving on. Reconnecting with my puppies and have a significant other in my life now. The first thing I did when I got better was finally finish the multi-zone setup.

    As for my truck, it has another 3 weeks to go and it will be out of the shop. The shop I am at now is very slow, but they are also very very detailed in their repairs. They are even fixing the repairs from the first body shop which really didn't fix the frame. I am thinking of filling a complaint with the BBB for the first shop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Borte View Post
    I have a Lilliput UM-70 USB monitor here and it runs OM just fine with all the OpenGL graphics, It's connected to my desktop though so I don't know how it will be affected by the CPU speed.

    But also remember that if you want to use the full zone setup in OM you should also incorporate multiple soundcards to get the whole experience.

    Just make sure that regardless of what graphical solution you go for it has to support OpenGL 2++ (yes OM has a software fallback but that will be way slower than OpenGL).
    As long as the processor is dual core, and has decent ram, there shouldn't be any slow down. H3ll, i run 4 of them and have no slow down. Now one thing I did notice, is that CF 3.5 runs super super fast on my setup. When I use OM though, the response is very slow. Which may be the OpenGL thing that your mentioning. Even if I turn off enhanced graphics in OM, its still sluggish.
    Nirwana Project, the Android/Win 7 hybrid system!

    1X Ainol Novo Flame Tab
    4X MK808b
    3x Perixx Touchpads
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    1X 7 inch motorized Screen
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