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Thread: Need powering advice!

  1. #11
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    If its not to much to ask, can someone show me how I would wire up only the M4 units? I just dont see how I would do it.
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  2. #12
    Maximum Bitrate nasa's Avatar
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    If I may offer a suggestion...

    Don't use ANY drives in the 5 other computers. Instead network boot diskless head units. Now I haven't had cause to do this, but... I would network boot a linux variant that started a VM (like Virtualbox.org) with your windows variant. While I support linux, this isn't trying to push it -- it's just that unix clones support this capability much easier than windows. I get this basic idea from things like:

    http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Diskless_Frontend

    http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/...rtualbox-linux

    http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=63040.0


    How fast is this? Not sure - as I said, haven't had cause to try it out. But you most likely already have the hardware and any additional software cost would be zero...

    Just saying...


    BTW: Linux setup to use ramdisk (live disk setup) - Windows won't matter (it's running in a VM with virtual HD anyways)

  3. #13
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasa View Post
    If I may offer a suggestion...

    Don't use ANY drives in the 5 other computers. Instead network boot diskless head units. Now I haven't had cause to do this, but... I would network boot a linux variant that started a VM (like Virtualbox.org) with your windows variant. While I support linux, this isn't trying to push it -- it's just that unix clones support this capability much easier than windows. I get this basic idea from things like:

    http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Diskless_Frontend

    http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/...rtualbox-linux

    http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=63040.0


    How fast is this? Not sure - as I said, haven't had cause to try it out. But you most likely already have the hardware and any additional software cost would be zero...

    Just saying...


    BTW: Linux setup to use ramdisk (live disk setup) - Windows won't matter (it's running in a VM with virtual HD anyways)
    WOW.... seems super complicated. Will this slow down my main pc though?
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  4. #14
    Maximum Bitrate nasa's Avatar
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    Boot times of the network machines maybe *slow*, but your main machine (even if used to provide dhcp sevices) would be unaffected -- especially once the machines are up and running.

    More things to read:

    http://www.kegel.com/linux/pxe.html
    http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/man...b.html#Network

    What I don't know about tftpd servers...

    http://tftpd32.jounin.net/
    http://www.tftp-server.com/

  5. #15
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Thanx for chimming in.... I think OS streaming is the way I should go. I am going to try XenDesktop 4 which reduces cpu usage on the server and sends it to the client. This might be exactly what I need! No HDD on any of the clients. They have an evaluation version, so I am going to play with it. I just have to see if there is support for the touchscreens and stuff.
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  6. #16
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Now I see that the requirements say that XenServer has to be installed on a Windows Server Platform.... Is this true? is there a way to install it on say Win 7?
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  7. #17
    Maximum Bitrate nasa's Avatar
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    Sorry,

    I already stretched my imagination for the day....

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiJackZX1 View Post
    That mechanically the HDD will die. I have never heard of a standard drive being used in this manner.
    I don't think this will be of any concern. Dropping power is how the hard drives are normally shut off, even when the computer does a 'normal' shutdown. The heads mechanically park themselves on power loss. It will not cause any more wear and tear on the drives than if you actually did shutdown smoothly.
    Quote Originally Posted by HiJackZX1 View Post
    Well I didnt know that. i figured because the ATX connectors were not able to be used, that I would have to wire the M4 units in dumby mode so when power is applied, they simply turn on. I got this idea from the M4 manual that the PSU can not be run any other way without the ATX connector.
    Even in 'dummy' mode, I don't thing the M4 will power up on its own, even when power is applied. It will power up the +5VSB, but that is it. It takes the motherboard to turn the rest of the power supply on (by shorting PS_ON to GND). Dummy mode on the M2 and M4 power supplies basically makes them behave just like normal desktop power supplies. They turn on when PS_ON is jumpered to GND, and turn off when it's not. +5VSB is always available.

    Quote Originally Posted by nasa View Post
    Don't use ANY drives in the 5 other computers. Instead network boot diskless head units. Now I haven't had cause to do this, but... I would network boot a linux variant that started a VM (like Virtualbox.org) with your windows variant. While I support linux, this isn't trying to push it -- it's just that unix clones support this capability much easier than windows.
    I think this approach would be great for using an actual Linux front end. Network boot the 'sub-machines' off the primary. However, windows is NOT compatible with network booting. Yes, you could launch a windows VM from your network booted linux OS, but that sounds like quite a stretch...

    That said, it DOES look like network booting from iSCSI may be possible with windows...

    In fact, it looks like the Intel boards you are using have gPXE built into them, making the iSCSI boot pretty much built in (once you set up some iSCSI targets on your main 'server'). Win7 and Server 2008 support the ability to install directly to iSCSI devices, when mounted by gPXE.
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  9. #19
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    I don't think this will be of any concern. Dropping power is how the hard drives are normally shut off, even when the computer does a 'normal' shutdown. The heads mechanically park themselves on power loss. It will not cause any more wear and tear on the drives than if you actually did shutdown smoothly.
    Really I didn't know this, so my fear is unwarranted! Thats great news because this virtual desktop idea is running into to many limits for me. I am going to have to use physical drives. I am guessing I am going to have to really study EWF and HORM. For some reason it just didn't seem to work correctly. I am a newbie so I could have done something wrong.

    Even in 'dummy' mode, I don't thing the M4 will power up on its own, even when power is applied. It will power up the +5VSB, but that is it. It takes the motherboard to turn the rest of the power supply on (by shorting PS_ON to GND). Dummy mode on the M2 and M4 power supplies basically makes them behave just like normal desktop power supplies. They turn on when PS_ON is jumpered to GND, and turn off when it's not. +5VSB is always available.
    That was my exact logic, and that was what I was thinking. That was my whole reason for wanting to use the P1900 to control that aspect. Since you have relieved my fear of the drives breaking, the OPUS once again can simply hard off the M4 units. I do not even want 5V running through it. Basically my idea was going to be to put the M4 units into an always on state. I was going to use that mod that we use to test bench out Car PC units, where you take a standard desktop PSU and mod it to always be on and supply power to 12V and 5V rail.




    By doing this they will just always be on, no having to worry about turning on or off anything, instead the OPUS will worry about tripping relays to give the M4's power.

    I think this approach would be great for using an actual Linux front end. Network boot the 'sub-machines' off the primary. However, windows is NOT compatible with network booting. Yes, you could launch a windows VM from your network booted linux OS, but that sounds like quite a stretch...

    That said, it DOES look like network booting from iSCSI may be possible with windows...

    In fact, it looks like the Intel boards you are using have gPXE built into them, making the iSCSI boot pretty much built in (once you set up some iSCSI targets on your main 'server'). Win7 and Server 2008 support the ability to install directly to iSCSI devices, when mounted by gPXE.
    I am dropping this idea. Most of these solutions seem to be geared around a server handling stuff. The XenServer stuff I was looking into seems like it would be great, doesn't bog down the PC its running on, but it requires Win Server 2003 or 2008. I obviously cant use that because I want to do more with my main system. So I guess the first layout I had before was correct after all. I do not know what made me think that it wasn't going to work .

    Thanx so much for all your guys advice. It was very helpful.
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