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Thread: M4 sounds REALLY hit or miss....

  1. #11
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    I went ahead and bought it... ahh the last piece of the puzzle. Its going to be phenom. I thought about the usb situation as well, what do you have installed in your system that requires 20 usb ports?! very curious actually i feel like i'm forgetting something now

  2. #12
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman137 View Post
    I went ahead and bought it... ahh the last piece of the puzzle. Its going to be phenom. I thought about the usb situation as well, what do you have installed in your system that requires 20 usb ports?! very curious actually i feel like i'm forgetting something now
    FRONT:

    1 Front USB 10Hz GPS receiver
    2 Single USB-3 repeater extension socket for external file transfer to USB-3 1TB drive
    3 Output from 4-P repeater HUB to 10-P HUB
    4 Output to Four port HUB in ashtray for general external USB devices (4 ports free)
    5 Front HI-DEF Web Cam
    6 Touch Screen controller
    7 OBDII general vehicle interface
    8 Factory OBDII interface and Software
    9 Vehicle system interface Microprocessor & feDrive interface (my version of iDrive for FE control)
    10 CAN-BUS interface
    11 HVAC microprocessor to Car-PC interface and standalone controller
    12 Remote HVAC manual interface Microcontroller
    13 Wireless Micro Keyboard dongle - For system upgrades and configuration if needed.
    14 Wireless Micro Mouse dongle - For system upgrades and configuration if needed.
    15 Port 1 free on 10 port HUB behind dash for future expansion.
    16 Port 2 “ “
    17 Port 3 “ “

    REAR PC USB connections:

    18 Rear USB 1hz GPS receiver
    19 Rear HI-DEF Web Cam
    20 DAB-FM receiver
    21 Optical DSP PC to AMP interface with USB interface control
    22 Hardware Volume - Mute – Auto DAB-FM Aerial Change-over relay control Microprocessor
    23 Shutdown, Sleep, Hibernate State monitor and failsafe power off Microprocessor
    24 M4-ATX interface for temp and status monitoring
    25 Hi-Power WI-FI module
    26 Wireless Internet module
    27 USB-3 output to single port front repeater extension cable for HDD drive file transfer and backup
    28 USB-2 output to Front 4P repeater HUB
    29 USB-2 output to Single port front repeater extension cable for GPS receiver (for stability and interference reduction)
    Last edited by Mickz; 03-18-2012 at 08:56 PM.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  3. #13
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    man alive, do you have pics or a work log of your setup i'd really like to see it. Sincce you're a bit more complicate than i am i have two more quick questiosn:
    1. Do you have a secondary battery, or does the one suffice?
    2. What gauge wire did you use to get ti to the DCDC psu? according to charts and my current draw and length i'm going to just my glove compartment, i should be fine with 8 guage and thats even overkill. a 12 or 10 would be fine as well eh?

  4. #14
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Hi, my work log is accessed by clicking on “The Project” in my sig. I went through a number of rebuilds in the work log and "almost" gave up the M4 for a number of reasons. The cable requirements change with a rear mounted system that also has an AUX battery and really a minimum of 4G is required to keep voltage drop to a minimum for correct AUX battery charging – standard current calculators V wire gauge usually don’t take system noise and correct voltage drop for AUX recharging in to account (to many variables).

    The gauge of wire used in low power systems is more about reducing noise across the connection, so 8G is the minimum I would use to feed an M4 supply with low power draw (under 100 watts). Also it is important to run both Pos and Neg cables from the Vehicle battery to the M4 as well as using a short ground connection from the M4 to a good vehicle chassis point.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  5. #15
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    I would imagine such amp charts have to be very general, but all the same it seems like 4 guage is WAY over what they all reccoment.
    My PC is rated at 220 ish W. And for safe measure i'll round up to 250W. I'lll be storing it in the glove compartment so that reduces the L_total a ton of the wire which in theory as far as i understand it should reduce the guage i need. So i'll overestemate again and give myself 8 ft of required wire. According to ALL ampherage/wattage charts. 8 ft at 250 W is reccomended a 12 guage wire. I don't get to 4 guage until i go up to 840 watts... Which sounds more likely seeing as thats close to the draw of my 12 inch subs in back that i ran with a 4 guage wire. Lol a 4 guage wire looks like it will barely fit if at all in the m4 input terminals.

  6. #16
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    That is correct, 8G will be fine in your case. If it was mounted in the trunk AND you had a noise problem then 4G may have to be used to help reduce the noise. Again, current charts have nothing to do with interference that develops across the supply cable which is caused my high RF circulation currents from the SMPS. These currents couple into nearby cables, radiate into GPS and DAB-FM radio and is the cause of ground loop audio noise, in turn caused by current flow between and across system component ground points. The only way to reduce this at the source is to reduce the supply and ground path RF resistance paths. The vehicle chassis is made of steel and is one of the WORST conductors of RF current, you may as well put a resistor in every earth lead as far as the RF conductivity of steel is concerned (good for DC though). A SMPS (M4) can generate audio signals and RF signals up into the UHF region and above.
    Last edited by Mickz; 03-24-2012 at 01:13 AM.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  7. #17
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    So mickz, Do you have an aditional battery? Because i have a few amps for subs and speakers. And upon my FIRST GRAND STARTUP!!!! The battery was already acting real funny like. I'd really like to avoid an additional battery, but you sound like you have a similar setup at least a similar PSU. I don't plan on using it while car not running. But is the 230 w rms off my battery just too much while its running?
    Also, do you just use one of the periferal connectors black and yellow wire to power your screen? Lol that seems the only option, but it seems odd since you have 2 sata and 2 perifferal all spliced together.

  8. #18
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    I connected wires as needed to the M4+12v out, keeping in mind the rated M4-ATX +12v current capability.

    At one time I had the screen dual powered from the M4 +12v output and the ACC-IGN power from the vehicle. I have a reversing camera and the screen needs to be powered before the PC-PSU has started but also after the ACC-IGN line has dropped so any status info can be viewed when the PC is closing down.

    Yes, I have an auxiliary battery, there is a full circuit and pictures of the complete system in my work log. The circuit below is the basic power connections of the M4 PSU, AUX battery and control circuits.

    In this final revision the power for the LCD screen is switched from the AUX battery via a small 3 terminal +12v regulator. The LCD screen has a SMPS and will run down to 8v volts so the regulator simply holds it at +12v or slightly below. The AUX battery can charge as high as 14.4V in the vehicle and on the rare occasions above 14.7 volts if I use an external charger designed for this type of battery, so I included the regulator as I had plenty of room, it cost nothing and keeps any crap out of the supply wires ruining to LCD at the front of the vehicle.



    A larger image

    With correct wiring a “good” charged car battery should have no problems running a 230w RMS amplifier and the PC while testing. I assume that you are including all the amplifiers you have connected, especially the sub if you have it cranked up in that total 230w RMS figure? Perhaps you could elaborate on the battery acting funny?
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  9. #19
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    very impressive, excuse me though i wasn't being very clear. I have a mono amplifier powering my two subs rated at 400 rms, and a small 2 channel for my front speakers that is negligable compared. I think it was more so my car internal electronics recovering from the battery being disconnected, but i now have a sure fire guide if I start making my setup as complicated and as current sucking as yours seems to be.

    I'm about ready to take pictures and show off, today was my first official bootup, SOO gratifying, however two small issues and one is directed expecially at you again mickz lol.

    1. UGLY UGLY, LOUD, static audio. And i started a different thread explaining all my trouble shooting, and basically it comes down to my M4 being the culprite, and I keep being pointed to you already covering this, but i can't find the specific thread where you cover a solution?

    2. Not nearly as pertinent to this area and i'm going to contact asus tech support tomorrow anyways, but thought maybe someone has an idea. I have a digital port out from my motherboard, and ONLY VGA in to my monitor. SO i bought an adapter. Well the screen is only sent a signal if i start the computer using a HDMI monitor, then restart the pc, and before bootup unplug the HDMI leaving the DP to VGA. But heavens forbit i ever shut down and start up again, because then the DP to VGA isn't sent a signal and i have to do my little dance again if i want picture.

  10. #20
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    just got my m4 and experiancing noise problems. nothing connected to the motherboard but a small set of computer speakers through the rear audio out port and getting a hissing sounds through the speakers with the motherboard powered with the m4. the m4 is being fed regulated 12v via an old atx power supply. kind of bummed if this is going to be the first of many problems of interfearance with the m4. Im not getting any noise through the screen though. but then again it is a straight lvds connection to the motherboard. only thing the m4 is powering is the motherboard, sata laptop drive, and the 12v rail usually used for a p4 connection will be powering the mp3 car usb xm controller. but not connected at this time.

    if anyone can help really dont want to have noise problems this early. I do plan on using a usb soundcard to feed the rca pre outs to mu amps. but wanted to hear some audio just to try some things and encountering noise already.

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