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Thread: M2-ATX Problem - Fan runs but does not boot !

  1. #41
    Low Bitrate EvilLawnGnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autonator View Post
    I know that you can hybernate .. but i just dont want hybernation, may be i want shutdown.. i want no drainage. What i mean to say is there should be act correctly for both hybernate OR shutdown so you have a choice.
    I'm pretty sure that hibernation draws no more current then being shut down. It just saves all of the system information the the hard disk, and shuts off the computer. I'm not positive on this though.
    Build Two:
    Planning: [==========]100%
    Purchasing: [=====---------]50% (Car just got broken into)
    Design: [=======-----]70% (Building a false panel to cover up my goodies)
    Install: [======--------]600% (Need to replace screen and beisel)

  2. #42
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    Wiredwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autonator View Post
    Ran some tests with ignition wiring, and it behaves the same way as my dumb test. When i turn ignition off, the shutdown dialog comes up. I want it to start shutting down instead of askingme to clik shut down.

    I know that you can hybernate .. but i just dont want hybernation, may be i want shutdown.. i want no drainage. What i mean to say is there should be act correctly for both hybernate OR shutdown so you have a choice.

    To make sure i have a shutdown that stays shut. I have no jumpers on rite on. I installed the PC in my car (pictures and process will be posted in another thread soon) with a on off switch on 12v constant. i have the switched wire installed as well but no jumpers so it does not do the ignition routine yet. I had it connected for ease of enablment in future once im comfortable with all the setups and bios on off and windows routines related to shutdown and start. So for now when i shut down the PC, i have 3 to 4 seconds before it starts again (a problem related to my last posts). So i have a on off button installed on the 12v const.. i turn it OFF during that 4 seconds.

    Have been busy putting it in my car, so didnt post any more issues, will update in a couple of days.
    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR M2, there is a problem with your OS, BIOS, or settings, NOT THE M2

    The reason it is restarting is because the MB STILL SEES POWER FROM THE M2, and NO OTHER REASON.

    Your M2 is fine.

    From your txt file


    RESULTS OF TEST01 and TEST02:
    Gitches were found in sequences on M2. Its proved that:
    1. M2-ATX in dumb mode, does not recognize hard off if it is
    invoked from windows shutdown dialog. It restarts the PC
    3 seconds after a shutdown from windows and repeats that
    as long as you keep turning off PC from windows dialog. This
    is a bug. If the PC is shutdown and the PS is in dumb mode, it should
    monitor the on/off pins and should not do anything unless a
    switch is pressed by the user. In a car environment, this
    could be an annoyance. You will have to play a game of time
    to keep the PC shut, you will have to turn the main power
    from car const 12v(13.8v) OFF in that 3 seconds so it does not
    come back ON. The workaround is a 12v disconnect switch on main
    const 12v line from battery. This is a hack and the M2-ATX should
    not act like this.

    2. Only hardoff by shortening the J9 for a few seconds will keep the
    PC off instead of booting it again after shutdown on its own. Seems
    it only recognizes that as a hard off. thats a BUG. Windows are
    not supposed to be hard turned off like this. SO this feature does
    not help and is not good for system.

    3. The on/off wire is not the only source for a on off signal to
    the mother board. The difference beween having the wire installed
    or not is only When i turn the BSA on, the PC will start
    automatically if i have the wire installed. other wise it wont. So
    whats the problem? well see test 01 above, i have no wire installed
    but the PC still starts again if i shutdown windows from windows
    shutdown dialog. So there are two sources of on off, one from the wire,
    and one from the supply through the ATX connector.

    I think all of the above can be summed up into one bug.. The correct
    behaviour can be achieved if the M2 ATX is in dumb mode, it only waits for
    signal from J9 and nothing else, and after any kind of shutdown, It does not
    do any "intelligent" work, cuz doh!.. its in dumb mode.
    that would fix all 3 of the above.
    THIS IS NO BUG. You are wrong. The M2 DOES NOT MONITOR BUTTON PUSHES of the MB power switch. In DUMB mode, when it gets power, it is powered, when there is no power, the M2 is not powered. The START AND SHUTDOWN of the MB when connected to a "dumb" M2 is all from the MB/BIOS/OS. Nothing to do with the M2. It is restarting because your BIOS/OS is set to start upoin POWER application. I mentioned this before.

    You keep relying on the restart issue to prove that the M2 has a fault. There is no fault, YOU HAVE AN INCORRECT SETTING ON YOUR BIOS.



    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  3. #43
    Low Bitrate EvilLawnGnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiredwrx View Post
    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR M2, there is a problem with your OS, BIOS, or settings, NOT THE M2

    The reason it is restarting is because the MB STILL SEES POWER FROM THE M2, and NO OTHER REASON.

    Your M2 is fine.

    From your txt file



    THIS IS NO BUG. You are wrong. The M2 DOES NOT MONITOR BUTTON PUSHES of the MB power switch. In DUMB mode, when it gets power, it is powered, when there is no power, the M2 is not powered. The START AND SHUTDOWN of the MB when connected to a "dumb" M2 is all from the MB/BIOS/OS. Nothing to do with the M2. It is restarting because your BIOS/OS is set to start upoin POWER application. I mentioned this before.

    You keep relying on the restart issue to prove that the M2 has a fault. There is no fault, YOU HAVE AN INCORRECT SETTING ON YOUR BIOS.



    Michael
    Thats what got mine working. I had to make sure that streetdeck, windows, and the bios all matched in the shutdown procedure.
    Build Two:
    Planning: [==========]100%
    Purchasing: [=====---------]50% (Car just got broken into)
    Design: [=======-----]70% (Building a false panel to cover up my goodies)
    Install: [======--------]600% (Need to replace screen and beisel)

  4. #44
    Maximum Bitrate Dragonknell911's Avatar
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    Heh i was going to recommend making sure that was set, but since the op seemed so insolent, i didn't think he'd know how to take such a suggestion.
    REBUILDING!!

  5. #45
    Newbie Autonator's Avatar
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    WIREDWRX:
    "THIS IS NO BUG. You are wrong. The M2 DOES NOT MONITOR BUTTON PUSHES of the MB power switch. In DUMB mode, when it gets power, it is powered, when there is no power, the M2 is not powered. The START AND SHUTDOWN of the MB when connected to a "dumb" M2 is all from the MB/BIOS/OS. Nothing to do with the M2. It is restarting because your BIOS/OS is set to start upoin POWER application. I mentioned this before."


    Thanks for your reply, I never said that it should be monitoring the on off on "motherboard". That would be dum, Perhaps you want to read the test cases first intead of just reading the results.

    Though i will check my bios once again for the setting, you forgot to mention my reply when you mentioned this to me beofore, and that was.. there is a On power faliure setting in bios, and thats for POWER FAILURE. shutting down the PC isnt POWER FAILURE so you shouldnt be required to set that setting (which i believe is set to not restrart but i will make sure again).

    When i connect my PC to a regular atx power supply, and shut windows, it stays shut.. why? why doesnt my magic bios setting cause it to restart then?

    The solution you guys are suggesting, sounds like a remedy.

    Also no need to scream about things and also judge me as "insolent" .. lol never heard anyone using that word.

    Just saying its a problem with motherboard / bios/ blah blah.. and saying nothing about the exact setting you are talking about doesnt tell anyone anything. Also "I did that" does not tell me what you really did.

    I am still looking into this.. i might prove my self wrong.. :P
    Chrysler Sebring 2004 Conv Limited Ed.
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    M2 ATX PS.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autonator View Post
    WIREDWRX:
    "THIS IS NO BUG. You are wrong. The M2 DOES NOT MONITOR BUTTON PUSHES of the MB power switch. In DUMB mode, when it gets power, it is powered, when there is no power, the M2 is not powered. The START AND SHUTDOWN of the MB when connected to a "dumb" M2 is all from the MB/BIOS/OS. Nothing to do with the M2. It is restarting because your BIOS/OS is set to start upoin POWER application. I mentioned this before."


    Thanks for your reply, I never said that it should monitoring the on off on "motherboard". That would be dum, Perhaps you want to read the read test cases first intead of just reading the results.

    Though i will check my bios once again for the setting, you forgot to mention my reply when you mentioned this to me beofore, and that was.. there is a On power faliure setting in bios, and thats for POWER FAILURE. shutting down the PC isnt POWER FAILURE so you are shouldnt be required to set that setting (which i believe is set to not restrart but i will make sure again).

    When i connect my PC to a regular atx power supply, and shut windows, it stays shut.. why? why doesnt my magic bios setting cause it to restart then?

    The solution you guys are suggesting, sounds like a remedy.

    Also no need to scream about things and also judge me as "insolent" .. lol never heard anyone using words like that.

    Just saying its a problem with motherboard / bios/ blah blah.. and saying nothing about the exact setting you are talking about doesnt tell anyone anything. Also "I did that" does not tell me what you really did.

    I am still looking into this..
    I read your test.

    The problem is I am not gonna explain each and every one why it doesn;t work, or is working the way you say it is, because it is the same problem.

    First of all, the M2 has a start up and shutdown controller. It is for the M2 to take care of those things. If you want to do it with WINDOWS, that is not what the M2 was designed or created for.

    DUMB Mode is for testing only, and not indicative of the operation of the unit when it is configured for the car, and installed with the accessory/ignition wire connected, the ACPI header connected to the M2, and with constant power on the proper connection on the M2.

    Set it up the way it is supposed to be setup, and tell me what happens. Does it shut down the computer when you turn off the ignition, and start it when you turn on the ignition? Then it is working as advertised.

    Now, you want to do something else, then perhaps the M2 isn't the right device for you, but that doesn't indicate it has a BUG.

    Next, I have no idea if, and if it does, why your AC-DC PS works the way it does. I can only comment about the M2. Since, in dumb mode, the ignition doesn't change/isn't taken into account, once it has power, it is powering the ATX connections, and when it doesn't. there is no ATX power.

    So, one at a time,

    Test 1, there is no connection between the M2 and the ACPI header to restart it, CAN'T BE THE M2

    Test 2, The M2 is in Dumb mode. You computer starts because the ACPI wire is connected, and the M2 sends a signal, BUT, it restarts, because the M2, in dumb mode, has power when powered by your "BSA". It is still powered when you shut down with Windows, and restarts because of your BIOS settings. To prove that, run test 2 again, and this time, after the PC boots, remove the ACPI wire, and shutdown with windows. It WILL restart because the M2 is powered. It has NOTHING to do with the ACPI signal being sent from the M2 to the MB, and NOT becuase
    "02.6
    This time when PC shuts down and waiting for 3 seconds, Turn
    BSA switch OFF then ON again simulating complete power disconnect.
    Result: PC STARTS again due to wire on J8 unlike 01.1, so
    basically we are back to Case 02.1. the unexpected thing that
    happened in this test is that when i shut down the PC, it should
    remain shut cuz there is no ignition wire for timing and no
    jumpers making it "dumb"."


    Your testing is flawed, because you lack understanding as to how the M2 operates.

    Dumb Mode, Powered when your BSA has power. Signal to start is sent, but no SHUTDOWN sent over ACPI header.

    Non Dumb mode, Signals sent over ACPI header. After loss of accessory power, M2 send shutdown over ACPI, and then waits to TOTALLY DISCONNECT POWER.

    Set it up like that. If your MB reboots, it is because during the time the M2 waits between the SHUTDOWN signal, and HARD OFF, the MB settings are incorrect.

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  7. #47
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    possible cure

    hi all i was having a similar problem with my m2 after the computer shut down i couldn't turn it back on again usually the cpu fan would start to spin then stop and start repeatedly,and occasionally it would fire up after several stop starts.any how i received my xenarc 700tsv and connected it to the 12V rail and for some reason i have never had the problem again i thought i would just add this here incase it may save some people a headache. one thing though i am only benchtesting this and i have the m2 connected to the 12V rail of a standard power supply so mayb after i connect it to the cars battery i may expierence problems again i hope not though.i bought my m2 about a month ago off ebay brandnew and i dont believe it has been modified

    so what im getting at is try load the 12V rail of the m2 a bit harder

  8. #48
    Newbie Autonator's Avatar
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    Wiredwrx:
    My testing isnt flawed.. it is what it is..

    If you are saying that its not a BUG but a FEATURE then i arrest my case.

    Also, You cant just say it was "designed" to be that way.. In order to do that you have to comply with ATX standards. And by what you are saying.. it is "Compatible" to ATX but not "Compliant".

    Also my intention is not to get into an argument here..

    btw, dude you sound liek you have bought shares in mini-box.. or may be you are someone at mini-box?

    Also, yes i did try to use it with the ignition controller, if i turn the ignition key off half way, the windows shutdown dialogue pops up.. then i have to choose it. BUT.. if im in a hurry and i unintentionally turn teh ignition key all the way off and pull the key out, then the PC shuts down abruptly..

    I have a 2004 chrysler sebring convertable.

    Like i said before, Im still looking into its working as i get time, planning this weekend to try out the ignition timing again with a clean slate just to see if im not smoking crack..

    I will take some pictures too.
    Chrysler Sebring 2004 Conv Limited Ed.
    Commell LV-677.
    Voom PC case.
    M2 ATX PS.
    1.8Ghz Intel Core Duo.
    1GB PNY RAM.
    Dynamix 816 (8", Wide, TS).
    80GB out of a broken laptop.
    WiFi Atheros (HP) out of a broken laptop.
    OS: Win XP MCE.

  9. #49
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    I apologize for saying you method was flawed, you are right, it is what it is. It is your conclusion that is flawed.

    And what case are you "arresting". You stated there is a bug, there is not. Your MB is restarting because of a setting misrake in your bios or OS. To provew this, unless you desire the option, your MB shouldn't pop up a choice when you hit the shutdown button. That is a setting in the power managment in the control panel of your OS.

    What kind of semantics is compliant and compatible. The M2 is compliant. What would make it non compliant, even if it acts as you believe. And sorry, I DO NOT belive your desktop PS behaves differently on your system, that system, the one you are using the M2 on.

    I am not arguing, you keep saying the M2 is flawed, has a bug, isn't compliant, and I am telling you it is the opposite of all your beliefs.

    I do not work for anyone associated with the M2. My job is posted all over this forum
    Like I said, you os settings in power management must be changed. This is how the M2 works, now please, read it and understand it before you say anything

    Constant power is always supplied to the M2. The M2 has an ignition sense. When the M2 is NOT in dumb mode, the M2 waits in standby, not powering the ATX xonnections at all. When the ignition is turnd on, the M2 senses this, and then waits a couple of seconds, and then shorts the ACPI header. Your MB thinks this is someone pushing the button on the MB, and starts in accordance with your OS and BIOS settings. The M2 then waits for the accessory power to drop/disappear. During that waiting, the M2 powers the system, and you use it as normal. When the accessory drops, the M2 checks the A-D jumpers, and depending on the jumpers, will do the following. The only thing the jumpers do is change the TIME between events. So, the accessory drops, the M2 waits, then shorts the ACPI header pins. You OS then says,n hey someone pressed the button, does what the power management settings tell it to do, shutdown, hibernate, standvy, log off, what ever. The M2 maintains power to the system to keep the system powered so that it can do what it needs, shutdown, hibernate etc. Then, the M2 waits, based on the jumpers, to go hard off (there are jumper settings which actually cause the M2 to never hard off). Once the time elapses, the unit hard offs, meaning, it cuts all power to your system. nothing has power then, except the M2 of course, because it has constant power, but the ATX xonnector has no power.

    Your system is shutting down "ubruptly" because your OS is telling it to wait for someone to choose what to do on a button push. Since you are not choosing anything when you shut off the ignition and pull the key, the M2 just follows the shutdown sequence, and eventually hard offs, killing the computer.

    Now, change your OS and BIOS settings, and you will be fine. Stop blaming the M2, it is your fault, you obviously have no idea about your OS, and you have not read the M2 manual.

    Michael
    ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

  10. #50
    Maximum Bitrate Dragonknell911's Avatar
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    Now, change your OS and BIOS settings, and you will be fine. Stop blaming the M2, it is your fault, you obviously have no idea about your OS, and you have not read the M2 manual.
    REBUILDING!!

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