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Thread: Open Boot Challenge 2009

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFiorito View Post
    I think we all can agree that the OSes we're using (Win7, WinEmb, & Linux) ALL perform very well. The critical pieces are the software (outside the OS) that we're using. For instance: Centrafuse relies on System.Web namespace in .NET. That means I had to install full .NET 2.0 instead of one of the client runtimes which have a smaller foot print. Not to pick on CF, but why is a front end referencing a server-side namespace? Other software, such as BlueSoleil, may in turn have a lot of other dependencies so the system keeps bloating, making configuration and tuning more problematic. The design and implementation of carpc software needs to really strive to be leaner and focused on performance from the start to help those of us looking to push the envelope.
    Well...yes and no here. I think we all just proved that resuming from hibernation is faster then booting even the leanest systems. Which raises the question of why do we care about size on disk? Don't we only really care about shrinking the memory footprint (and hence the resume speed)? i would love to see what an instant-on BIOS would add to the mix. I know this is off topic but does anyone know of any itx boards either released or planned to release with this tech?

  2. #62
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    what I was getting at is that a smaller footprint also means fewer dependencies, which in turns means less stuff running less and fewer configuration headaches. for instance, if your app requires the full .NET 3.0/3.5 run-time versus just the client profile, you need to include a handful of components for Windows Process Activation. These include additional windows services. If your app requires WMI, then that's yet another set of dependencies that needs to be running. And all these include additional downstream dependencies, etc., etc.

    So something that may seem a small thing by a 3rd-party developer can seriously impact what we're trying to accomplish. Of course, you're in a better position in that you can just jump into OpenMobile and make any changes necessary if they're worth the effort.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Got 14 by cutting the hib file in half. Still haven't gotten the embedded install working 100% but thats next.
    Music on at 19 seconds
    Button pressed at 2 seconds - looks like it anyway

    I make that 17 seconds

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFiorito View Post
    what I was getting at is that a smaller footprint also means fewer dependencies, which in turns means less stuff running less and fewer configuration headaches. for instance, if your app requires the full .NET 3.0/3.5 run-time versus just the client profile, you need to include a handful of components for Windows Process Activation. These include additional windows services. If your app requires WMI, then that's yet another set of dependencies that needs to be running. And all these include additional downstream dependencies, etc., etc.

    So something that may seem a small thing by a 3rd-party developer can seriously impact what we're trying to accomplish. Of course, you're in a better position in that you can just jump into OpenMobile and make any changes necessary if they're worth the effort.
    Ah great point I thought you were talking purely about application dependencies. You actually hit on one of my biggest complaints about winEmbedded. If I use only one small part of the .Net framework theres no way to ignore dependencies of the other parts. Well actually I hate how conservative the embedded requirements are in general but thats another story.

    Quote Originally Posted by NibbleIT View Post
    Music on at 19 seconds
    Button pressed at 2 seconds - looks like it anyway

    I make that 17 seconds
    We were ignoring power supply delay in the timing

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    We were ignoring power supply delay in the timing
    I was counting the time I hit power till music is playing. I think we allow subtraction of a few seconds if your psu delays startup (ie, like the m1-atx). Does your laptop delay power on?

    you've obviously never written anything using Qt. To be honest, It takes me about the same amount of time to push an application out in Qt as it does to write one in C# or managed c++. No ugly native coding required, and the core libraries are around 5 megs in size, usually stored in a folder local to the application.
    +1. Qt is an amazing. Not even the c++0x standard really addresses all the problems that Qt solves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripzero View Post
    I was counting the time I hit power till music is playing. I think we allow subtraction of a few seconds if your psu delays startup (ie, like the m1-atx). Does your laptop delay power on?
    Depends on how you count delay.....all laptop and mobile power supplies have a delay a desktop power supply wouldn't have. The power supply shuts down completely which means it takes ~2 seconds after the power button is pressed before the mobo is given the power good signal and boot begins. Depending on your power supply this procedure either happens during or after a power on delay (for the m series supplies).
    I'm mostly working on software performance so how you count post speed doesn't really matter to me much as long as its consistent.

    On that note: heres a new entry for resume speed-finally got 7embedded setup and configured well.

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    @justchat_1 - I don't think we should ignore your laptop power on delay unless you can eliminate it. Can you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    On that note: heres a new entry for resume speed-finally got 7embedded setup and configured well.
    Wow, that's quick. How about cold boot? Also, what is your evaluation of Win7embedded? Limitations? Advantages? Availability to the masses, etc?
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    i'm pretty happy with WinEmb 2011. XPe was very powerful, but a total headache. 2011 is much cleaner and easier to build images on with better performance. also, it's a lot faster to build and deploy images. for instance, i can easily build, deploy, and test an image in a VM. all software deployments and are automated except nvidia drivers for the zotac. then i just take that image, deploy it from the vm to the physical machine and i'm done. limitations are really due to whatever software you need to support, otherwise you can have a pretty minimal small os image that is very quick.

    as far as general availability, it's meant for oem's and integrators not for the general public. the cost, based on XPe, will probably be prohibitive for the hobbyist market.
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    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7tzBfxnMfU[/media]

    13.5 second resume from hibernation

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    I've got a Carnetix P2140 which I'm hoping after a bit of tweaking won't add much to the boot time

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