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Thread: Win8 with UEFI MB's Boot times?

  1. #11
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Interesting Data, basically confirms that once you hit around 260MB/s (SATA2 average SSD) increasing read speed to SATA3 6GB does not make much difference

    Last edited by Mickz; 11-09-2012 at 11:14 PM.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
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  2. #12
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Finally the last of my testing. I tried an i5 running at a similar speed as the i3 and as expected no difference. A higher speed and overclocked i7K may make a slight difference, but seriously, once any SSD is installed, it comes down more to the number of peripherals (HDD's, SSD's , CDROM, USB devices) installed as this affects BIOS Initialisation time and Windows (drivers) load time. In my system, OS load time is really fast and still less than 50% of BIOS initialisation time.

    IMHO once you get sub 15 second times from power on to a working Desktop then it's quick enough for me not to bother using sleep state anymore. Only time will tell if WIN8 maintains these times or if it goes like the others before it and needs refreshing/reinstalling every year or so. Don't have to do that in the CAR-PC as software is not being constantly changed, removed or installed like desktop PC use.

    Would I upgrade the CAR-PC? Not right now, but I'm tempted.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
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  3. #13
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    Very interesting thread. I've been running win8 64bit, i5 Ivy Bridge and SATA III SSD for a couple of months now. Sub 15 second cold boot remains consistent and the system is extremely stable. I've been very happy with overall system performance. Metro is NOT a replacement for a traditional carPC frontend, but it is a very nice adjunct. There are already several apps I use on occasion, and I expect more to appear as the market expands. And I'll add that they are perfectly usable on a 7" screen at 1024x768.

    Definitely worth a look....

  4. #14
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Hi VegasGuy, thanks for that info on your extended time with testing and using W8. I noticed a few people were hoping to use W8 METRO as a Replacement FE but as you pointed out, it's not really going to work like that. I mentioned early on that I actually like the functionally you can get out of the Metro start screen if you play around with it, I'm using it more and more for a quick short cut menu to my non Metro Applications. Glad to hear the boot times are remaining constant, I have a lot of big SW packages installed like Office, Photoshop, Visual Studio, Acronis True Image 2013 with plus pack, VLC media player (not big) etc. Boot times remain constant and no glitches yet.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
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  5. #15
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    It looks like those really fast 2 to 3 second UEFI POST times are apparently only achieved with system hardware designed for Windows8 without legacy boot hardware - IE A Windows 8 Laptop.

    It appears that on UEFI MB's designed for general use, POST times will be longer at around 6 to 8 seconds as is the case with this MB.

    Windows 8 has a new way of interrupting the Boot process because of these Sub 3 second POST times as key strokes don't work. There is a new Advances System Repair and start up option menu in Win8. I have some of the UEFI buttons (select Boot from a USB device) but software triggered booting into the UEFI bios is not there. The Advance Menu is dynamic and button options change depending on the UEFI Hardware platform.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
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  6. #16
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Here is my experience with Win8 registration. I preformed a clean install of Win8 in Legacy mode onto a 60GM OCZ SSD using an upgrade disk. I had my old Laptop drive that contained a registered copy of Vista and plugged it in to keep the upgrade version of Win8 happy. As soon as the NET became available it automatically registered Win8. I did not see an option to not Register during the installation, perhaps it's there but I missed it?

    A week later I decided to Reinstall Win8 onto a new 120GB Intel SSD drive, this time in UEFI mode, I preformed a clean install again to test this mode. Once I was happy with the installation I connected to the NET and it again reregistered automatically without a problem.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  7. #17
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    FYI. I decided to try Disk Cloning with Acronis 2013 True image Home (including Plus Pack for cloning). I cloned the 120GB SSD to a 5 year old Seagate 250GB HDD which has a max throughput of 78MB/s.

    Time taken was 10 Minutes.

    Cloning worked perfectly and converted the 120GB SSD partition to the 250GB HDD. The PC booted with the HDD (Slowly) and everything worked.

    HDD:
    Boot times for the HDD (after a restart) is 100 seconds to a stable desktop.
    Boot times after a shutdown (Fast Start) was 30 seconds.

    SSD:
    Boot time (after a restart) SSD is 13 to 14 seconds (depends on what USB devices I had plugged in).

    Boot time SSD after Shutdown is 12 to 13 seconds and again depends on what USB devices are connected.

    EDIT: Some of that long boot time for the HDD is caused by a couple of start-up APPS loading. These have no effect on the SSD but really hit the HDD.

    Without those the HDD Boot time to the Desktop is around 65 seconds.


    EDIT 2

    MY thoughts on SATA 3GB verses 6GB Window Load times Graph in Post 11. IMHO the results are caused by Read/Write and Latency times with small-block data sizes. Those High SSD 6GB streaming data throughputs are pretty much useless when booting an OS. The OS reads/writes lot's of small files like INF, driver, DLL, log and exe files which all benefit from small block IO performance. Looking at most of the drive benchmarks shows the current low/mid range SATAII and SATA3 have similar performances at this level.

    When I purchase my next OS boot drive I will be looking more at throughput, IOPS operations and Latency measured under random small-block (8K, 4K) workloads. IMHO the performance in this area would make an OS feel even snapper than it does now with an SSD, and not only at boot time but when loading and closing applications and OS background Disk IO tasks.

    If you take at look at data throughput when file copying, say the windows directory compared to a directory of Video files, you can clearly see the huge difference that small data read/write throughput makes.

    I can reach the full available Read/Write throughput of the HDD's and SSD's when copying large files like video, but only a fraction of that with bulk small file copy's. This small data R/W performance difference applies to both HDD's and SSD's.
    Last edited by Mickz; 11-12-2012 at 10:23 PM.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
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    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  8. #18
    Low Bitrate ephect's Avatar
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    SSD with TRIM support will also increase read/write speeds, i dont know if the ssd's on that boot time graph have TRIM (cbf researching atm) but have seen the difference and you can shave off ~5 seconds as its not overloading the system bus

  9. #19
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    Most have Trim, Win8 issues a Trim command when the Defragmenter is used on an SSD drive, totally different to previous Win Versions. Providing the Win installation is aligned on the SSD, and Win8 install does this correctly on a new install, it should boot fast. Incorrect 4k offset alignment can drop throughput up to 300% in some cases on the graphs I've seen.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  10. #20
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
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    FYI - Warning for anyone with Win8 installed with a GPT partition (UEFI boot). If you plug in a DRIVE that has a bootable MBR Partition (In my case a SATA laptop drive with Vista 64bit) Win8 will not boot. It will start to load, reboot, then after rebooting a second time which invokes Win8's Automatic Windows repair utility, the PC will most likely lock.

    I've seen this reported somewhere before, and no, it 's not trying to boot from the old drive. Unplug the old drive, hit reset and Wn8 reboots perfectly.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

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