Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 38

Thread: Tired of buggy software and going use smartphone standalone and JRiver for media play

  1. #21
    Variable Bitrate
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasGuy View Post
    "Mostly because Android is pretty simple, it just works, ..."

    I'm sorry, but that's just plain wrong. This courtesy XDA Developers:

    The Android operating system software stack consists of Java applications running on a Java based object oriented application framework on top of Java core libraries running on a Dalvik virtual machine featuring JIT compilation. Libraries written in C include the surface manager, OpenCore[1] media framework, SQLite relational database management system, OpenGL ES 2.0 3D graphics API, WebKit layout engine, SGL graphics engine, SSL, and Bionic libc. The Android operating system consists of 12 million lines of code including 3 million lines of XML, 2.8 million lines of C, 2.1 million lines of Java, and 1.75 million lines of C++.

    It doesn't "just work", it's taken hundreds (if not thousands) of developers many years to get it to the point where it "just works". The same is true of all the modern operating systems on the market. How many developers used to work for Nullsoft (the guys that used to own WinAmp)? 500? Adobe...2000-3000? Apple or Microsoft - 10s of thousands.

    Now lets talk about how many developers (the people that actually write the code to make the program work) are building our little neck of the woods.

    RideRunner. 1-2?
    OpenMobile - 2-3?
    Driveline - 1
    Centrafuse - 2

    All of them part-time I would guess, too.

    Care to take a stab at how many lines of code live in the Centrafuse core? Or OM? Whatever you're thinking, you should probably double it. Sometimes I'm just amazed at how much has been accomplished by everyone in the hobby with such limited resources.

    But the next time you think something is "simple" and "just works", stop and ask yourself how it got that way. Anything is simple...if you don't have to do it.
    Well when I said simple I didn't mean the subsystems, and development involved in creating Android which I'm pretty sure you knew. It's a powerful system with a simple and intuitive interface with tons of support. If you're going to go down that route then why wouldn't you guys leverage that? Rather than trying to make something on Windows that has more convoluted hardware and such? Leverage what's there already, and build a system around it to make it work for your particular needs. I'm not saying it would be easy, I understand that completely. And when I said it just works, I meant it works a lot better than Centrafuse or OM or RR, I understand that OM and RR are free platforms that are worked on in their free time, Centrafuse you pay for, and honestly if it worked the way it should I'd be happy to pay for it! I'd be just as happy to pay for an Android version and even pay for plugins and such. I was just sharing my experience and the enthusiasm I have for an Android based app, frankly I think Android is the future, it's in living rooms now, mobile phones, cars, tablets, etc etc.

  2. #22
    Maximum Bitrate
    Auto Apps:loading...
    VegasGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    611
    Please don't misunderstand, I don't want anyone to think I was picking on you. I just wanted to highlight the fundamental flaw in most of these conversations. Android won't make the media player in Centrafuse any better. Or the OBD reader in RR or improve the XM radio in Driveline. It won't make any of them easier to install, configure or operate. They may or may not perform better coming out of hibernation, but its not guaranteed. And their screen appearance and performance may or may not improve. Not only that, but any possible argument you could make for its superiority to desktop Windows could also be made for Linux, OSX, iOS, or probably even embedded Win8 too.

    But perception is reality, as they say. Android is the new hotness, and it just seems "better" even though nobody can actually state what the "better" is. Better UI? Purely a matter of taste, but ask the Apple folks what they think about the Android UI. Better performance? To state the obvious, it all depends on what you want to do. No serious gamer does anything on Android. And nobody that actually produces anything for a living does it on an Android PC. Android, much like iOS, is designed for consumer devices, the key word being consumer. Not enthusiast. Not developer...not even hobbyist. It's designed for your mom. So she will be comfortable using it.

    And maybe that's exactly where the carPC business should move. Maybe we need to get away from catering to the guys that want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, with whatever they have on hand, and start making the functional equivalent of a toaster oven. A few, well designed, easy to use features in an attractive package. That should be pretty simple, and it would please everyone, amIright?

    I don't know, and again, I'm not picking on anyone. Just taking a moment to re-evaluate my decision to pursue a career in retail sales...

  3. #23
    Variable Bitrate
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    305
    Lol, Well some of what you say is true, and some what you say isn't. There are serious gamers playing on Android (Ouya?) with newer hardware coming out like Tragra 4 and the next gen Tegra 5 opening up all kinds of stuff to the mobile platform such as full DirectX support etc. I don't think Android is necessarily aimed at the simple user, there is a ton of customization to the platform which is part of what make it so popular. I'm not sure Centrafuse on an iOS device would be all that great at all honestly, you'll likely never get the hardware support you would on Android, not to say the hardware support that we need is there, but it's likely a lot easier to get it to work on Android than iOS. I think the main reason Android makes sense for a CarPC is the fact that it's so readily available, the hardware is relatively standardized which should make stability and coding simpler, and there are TONS of devices out there. People could run something as simple as a Pioneer App Radio and their smart phone with mirroring, or they could go crazy and get an Odroid style device, with a custom touch screen, and crazy audio solutions to maximized performance. I just don't see mobile devices losing popularity, and I certainly don't see Android going away anytime soon.

  4. #24
    FLAC PhilG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasGuy View Post

    And maybe that's exactly where the carPC business should move. Maybe we need to get away from catering to the guys that want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, with whatever they have on hand, and start making the functional equivalent of a toaster oven. A few, well designed, easy to use features in an attractive package. That should be pretty simple, and it would please everyone, amIright?
    :

    Tell me I need a W8 32 bit machine or whatever you want, I'll get it.

    Give me a music player where I can actually find my music without having to sit down at a PC to plan my drive, with decent quality output including digital out, allow for external USB sound if possible.

    Make Mitch's SAT radio/ HD radio boxes work

    Demand a BU-353 antenna with something comparable to Garmin or even allow Garmin to be used for those of us that still have it.

    Demand one of those USB BT boxes that have been discussed on here to guarantee good phone / streaming.

    Allow plugins to be added on the premise if they don't work, sorry, they are a third party deal. Uninstall if you are unhappy with it or contact the author.

    Allow embedded programs on the same premise, if it doesn't work sorry, live with it or uninstall it, we only guarantee the above to work pretty much flawlessly.

    Oh, and one more thing: make the method of licencing the software reliable. Too many times I was away from home & ended up using sat amp & win amp for several days until I got home & had time to fix the licence file issue.

    Where do I sign, I'm in. Charge me $100 for the FE if it works, I don't care, I now have what any decent head unit can do these days with the ability to add third party apps and store tons of music and likely better quality sound output (depending on the head unit)
    My 2007 Ford F350 Work Log located HERE

  5. #25
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasGuy View Post
    Please don't misunderstand, I don't want anyone to think I was picking on you. I just wanted to highlight the fundamental flaw in most of these conversations. Android won't make the media player in Centrafuse any better. Or the OBD reader in RR or improve the XM radio in Driveline. It won't make any of them easier to install, configure or operate. They may or may not perform better coming out of hibernation, but its not guaranteed. And their screen appearance and performance may or may not improve. Not only that, but any possible argument you could make for its superiority to desktop Windows could also be made for Linux, OSX, iOS, or probably even embedded Win8 too.

    But perception is reality, as they say. Android is the new hotness, and it just seems "better" even though nobody can actually state what the "better" is. Better UI? Purely a matter of taste, but ask the Apple folks what they think about the Android UI. Better performance? To state the obvious, it all depends on what you want to do. No serious gamer does anything on Android. And nobody that actually produces anything for a living does it on an Android PC. Android, much like iOS, is designed for consumer devices, the key word being consumer. Not enthusiast. Not developer...not even hobbyist. It's designed for your mom. So she will be comfortable using it.

    And maybe that's exactly where the carPC business should move. Maybe we need to get away from catering to the guys that want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, with whatever they have on hand, and start making the functional equivalent of a toaster oven. A few, well designed, easy to use features in an attractive package. That should be pretty simple, and it would please everyone, amIright?

    I don't know, and again, I'm not picking on anyone. Just taking a moment to re-evaluate my decision to pursue a career in retail sales...
    You hit on a key point even if indirectly. A carPC should be designed so my mother/father/wife/daughter could use it without issues once I have spent time setting it up. RR and Centrafuse do not meet that requirement today unless the mother/father/wife/daughter is also a technical person with a good mind for figuring things out. My 15 year old daughter could do it but the other members of my family were never comfortable using my carPC because of the buggy software. I think that will place a limit on the size of the prospective customer base. I have an appreciation for the level of effort that has gone into these front ends. I am a EE with some experience writing code for embedded applications. I know it is not easy. I just believe that the eventual end product should be easy to use for non-technical users after a skilled person has configured the PC. Android does a better job of that right now and the fact that many out there have smart phones with Android makes it easier to get them comfortable with a carPC that has similar interface.

  6. #26
    Constant Bitrate
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilG View Post
    Where do I sign, I'm in. Charge me $100 for the FE if it works, I don't care, I now have what any decent head unit can do these days with the ability to add third party apps and store tons of music and likely better quality sound output (depending on the head unit)
    You just said what I forgot to talk about. I really wouldnt mind paying much more for a proper frontend. The first time I saw the price of CF I was actually shocked that it was so low, even with navigation.
    Even if it would cost triple as much as it does now, I would still buy it, provided it would work properly, and I am very sure most, if not all car PC people would, too. And I am not saying I want it completely bugless, I know thats impossible. But at least it should be usable, with basic functions working well. Right now CF has so many obvious bugs, it normally would be considered somewhere around an alpha version. I want at least mid-beta status! Bugs should only be hard to find and not jump around on your screen like, well, actual bugs!

  7. #27
    Maximum Bitrate
    Auto Apps:loading...
    VegasGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    611
    I realize everyone's experience (and experience level) is different. I believe the term "your mileage may vary" was coined to describe the phenomenon.

    Here's the first of a 6 part video series I did showing how to install and run Centrafuse 4.x on a clean Windows 7 install. (the rest of the series is available on the Centrafuse Auto channel on Youtube)



    The key points are these:

    • You must install windows 7 properly, including all the necessary drivers for your hardware.
    • You must, must, must run Windows update until you can't run it any more.
    • Until you do that, you have failed to properly prepare your system. It is just. that. simple.
    • If you have done that, then you can install Centrafuse 4.x and it will install properly, the first time, and it will just work.


    No errors, with a full audio/video library, and DVD playback. Again, without errors.

    If you don't get the same result, it is because you have not prepared your platform correctly, your driver environment isn't all it should be, or you have some kind of flaky hardware. As you can see from the videos, the motherboard used in the demo is a fairly complex Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe, with Sata3, USB3, BT 4.0, Wifi etc....definitely NOT a barebones system. All of the items shown in the programs and files screen are either directly related to the hardware, directly related to the OS, or are just peripheral stuff like Adobe.

    So here's my challenge: I will GIVE a full copy of Centrafuse to the first user that provides documented evidence that they followed this process using Windows 7 and the latest version of Centrafuse, and were not able to get Centrafuse to run without errors. It must be a consumer motherboard, running Window 7 pro or ultimate (I haven't tested on the Home version), and the latest download of Centrafuse 4.4.5.

    I took the time to prove it could be done and am willing to put my money where my mouth is. All you have to do is prove me wrong. Sound like fun?

  8. #28
    Variable Bitrate
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasGuy View Post
    I realize everyone's experience (and experience level) is different. I believe the term "your mileage may vary" was coined to describe the phenomenon.

    Here's the first of a 6 part video series I did showing how to install and run Centrafuse 4.x on a clean Windows 7 install. (the rest of the series is available on the Centrafuse Auto channel on Youtube)
    But bluetooth likely still wouldn't work properly and some other stuff, sure you'd have basic functions but if I wanted that I'd go for a standard head unit.

  9. #29
    Constant Bitrate
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    121
    Hm, I dont need another CF license, but Hdale85 would have won it anyway. Bluetooth is never working reliably, no matter how clean you install your system. Not only that, I would also win because as soon as you put your screen resolution to something different than 800x480, the last item in lists isnt visible anymore and often not selectable via touchscreen. There are many more bugs like this. The one I remember best, for example, is that I lose my buttons every now and then. Not really predictable, and thus not easily provable, but as I said before, many have reported this issue, but it still hasnt been fixed. Config files corruption is also still a regularly posted issue on the forums. Also something not easily provable. I dont want to have my screen capturing program running a month before it happens.
    But I will make a list and maybe some videos of the issues, next time I set up a clean system, as so many times before, and decide to use CF again.

    But that is not the point anyway, as Hdale85 already pointed out. Nobody is running a super clean and stock system forever. Essential plugins and background programs are needed like navigation, COM splitters, etc. And most importantly, it needs to still work properly after a lot of different standby cycles, something you didnt even touch in those videos.

  10. #30
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Hdale85 View Post
    But bluetooth likely still wouldn't work properly and some other stuff, sure you'd have basic functions but if I wanted that I'd go for a standard head unit.
    This has been my biggest issue over the years I have owned Centrafuse. Without reliable Bluetooth function for hands free phone operation, Centrafuse is just not that useful for me and my family. A standard head unit that reliably links to multiple family cell phones is much better fit with our needs. For music and video playback, JRiver Media Center works better for me right now than Centrafuse and gives me options to maximize the sound quality.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-23-2013, 06:11 AM
  2. Smartphone Carputer Software-Like?
    By paultje_007 in forum Software & Software Development
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-12-2009, 07:13 PM
  3. FM tuner with standalone software
    By stryke23x in forum General MP3Car Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-06-2007, 12:39 AM
  4. convert dvd for play tired of vob files!!
    By tracker92 in forum General MP3Car Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-10-2006, 12:39 PM
  5. Standalone Software Equalizer?
    By Vchat20 in forum General MP3Car Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-15-2005, 05:11 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •