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Thread: Mp3 To Mp4 and Mp4 to Mp3 ALL things MUSIC!

  1. #31
    Raw Wave Confused's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    and yes you have loss with "lossless" its >compressed< to a >Digital file< then converted back or "opend" (But it is still just a DIGITAL sanple on you Harddrive and "lossless" will still only sample @ soundcard level! no lower than 1Bit
    see now you are just seeing what you want to see and read this is OLD Hash.
    read the other posts .
    No, you do not have any loss of audio data. You have compression of audio data, but in a way that you can return it to the exact same audio data you started with. You are the one only seeing what you want to see, but the problem is, what you want to see is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    And lossless is not TRUE sawell 1Bit is 1 Bit and True sound can go alot smaller in part than 1Bit and compression is another thing.
    once you compress you just killed True sound and Quality.
    You're arguing the same invalid point in even more rediculous ways with every post you make.

    And if "TRUE" sound can't be recreated well enough on a computer for you, then why are you even bothering with us, and if you really felt that way, then you wouldn't even be using raw WAVE files, as they aren't "TRUE" enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    but we can go arround about this for ever but im not.
    im Smarter than this.
    I've seen nothing so far that says that you are "smarter than this".

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    as I sed the point of my post was for the every day peeps.
    AND WAS this.


    The point is that if you have a **** load of mp3's you can convert them to the mp4 format @ the PROPER Bitrate for the file you are going to convert. and SAVE SPACE AND have the SAME sound Quality as the Mp3 you started with.
    What is a "proper bitrate for the file"? You're throwing out even more data. The reason you're seeing such good compression is that it is still throwing out even more data than you had in the MP3. Yes, it might be compressing it to a higher rate, but not as you're suggesting of making a 50% saving and keeping the same sound and quality. YOU ARE THROWING MORE AWAY.

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    and you can still play them on a car pc if it uses media player as its core.
    The Point You are Trying to Rip out of this Is
    MORE Songs In your Car computer or On a CD up 2X more.
    This is th ONLY valid point you are making, that you can store more songs. The reason? You're making them lower quality than before.

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    i will post no more on this unless you show me HARD DATA .with a lab spectrum analiser.
    and at that you will not hear the diff
    Do YOU have "HARD DATA" to show us with a "lab spectrum analiser"?

    Until you do, I suggest you do some more reading, and thinking too.


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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    and yes you have loss with "lossless" its >compressed< to a >Digital file< then converted back or "opend" you record with a soundcard(But it is still just a DIGITAL sanple on you Harddrive and "lossless" will still only sample @ soundcard level! no lower than 1Bit and a max of 9.5 Mbit/s Real world sound has alot higher Resolution!
    See my second point in my above post.

    If NO digital audio is good enough for you, then why are you bothering with ANY kind of computers and sound files stored or played through them. And even less would you even CONSIDER using ANY kind of lossy compression to store them!


    Garry
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  3. #33
    Low Bitrate radioman193's Avatar
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    you started this usless point up of "lossless" so hard data needed

    i was not talking of "lossless"or "monkeys audio" wave or anay other for mat you just came in like a a "bad ***" and started to put every thing down i sed with out regaurd to what the pot was for.
    now i am going to drop this cause im older than 5 years old like we have ben going on like. so if you wish to keep this going its with your self what i needed to say Has ben sed.IT was For The Car Pc people and people that could use a little more space to work with.
    when you have 83000 songs in your car you Need space.
    and "batch converting" mp3 to mp4 is the Tits for Most people as thay dont care if thay are "STUDIO" Quality most are happy @256 and 128 Kbps so as i sed that was my point so at this point your on your own.
    Take care and God Bless

  4. #34
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    No matter how hard you try to argue, when you convert one lossy compression (MP3) to another lossy compression (MP4), you are going to throw more data away, and therefore lose sound quality. However, you said (repeatedly) that converting from MP3 to MP4 will give you the same sound quality in half the space. I corrected you in stating that it is wrong.

    I did not start anything "useless" with regards to lossless. Lossless compression is totally relevent in this discussion as it is that ONLY if you start with a lossless compressed file, that you convert from one format to another you will not lose quality, and audio data. (Unless you DO convert it to a lossy format, such as MP3 and MP4)

    I did not "just came in like a a "bad ***" and started to put every thing down i sed with out regaurd to what the pot was for."

    I took your comments and showed you where you are going wrong, and as soon as you saw that you might not be right, as far as I can see, you are the only one going on like a 5 year old. You're like a kid who cannot see the error of his ways, when his parents are telling him that something is wrong. You figured something out, it MUST be right. But, it isn't, I'm afraid.


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  5. #35
    Maximum Bitrate Bravellir's Avatar
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    Come on guys, this is almost ridiculous. Why donīt you just let people try it out and decide by themselfs?
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  6. #36
    I'm sorry, and you are....? frodobaggins's Avatar
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    I will put this to rest.

    You said I could take one of my mp3s and convert it to mp4 at "the Proper"
    bitrate and lose no sound quality. Well I just did.

    I chose a mp3 from my collection. I converted it to mp4 using the programs
    YOU recommended. I used the HIGHEST quality that the encoder offered.

    I then decompressed both the mp3 and mp4 files to wav. I verified they
    were the same size and the headers the same.

    I then took a sample out of both files of 1000 samples. At the same place in
    both files.

    I graphed the differences below. It is huge.

    As for the audio difference. The mp4 was noticeably less crisp with less
    dynamic range.
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  7. #37
    I'm sorry, and you are....? frodobaggins's Avatar
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    Dispute that.
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  8. #38
    Raw Wave Confused's Avatar
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    This is the only "5 years old" thing I will do in this thread, but after Frodo's post, i feel it's necessary.


    Garry
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by radioman193
    I NEVER! sed inprove in SQ. you can never have a better sound than the master but WILL sound the same.
    its in >SIZE<.
    with NO lossin SQ.

    MP4-audio sound (eg ACC audio). The cool thing I found too is that it Don't seem to use much more CPU-power than MP3.

    links if you want to see others info.

    http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/audio/mp4...dio_tests.html

    http://www.xciv.org/~meta/audio-shootout/

    with samples not for Cheep Pc speakers!
    http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html

    http://news.com.com/2100-1023-220233.html?legacy=cnet

    http://gear.ign.com/articles/442/442...html?fromint=1

    Im not trying to tell you all what you shuld do i just put the facts out here for you to see and hopefuly try them for your self .

    And thay sed that the Earth was flat.
    and that man cant fly.
    Then TRY and find alot of things out for your self.

    Im starting to wonder if you actually listened to these samples, it might even suggest that your hearing is the reason you think you are right when you are obviously wrong.

    I admit that I have not listened to the samples, except for in one site. The one about ogg vorbis http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html. It is clear that ogg vorbis sounds way better than mp4 here. I revisited the test, and paid close attention comparing the ogg mp4 and wav to see which one sounded the closest to the uncompressed wav. The mp4 lacked in the higer freq. this is very clear in the cymbols, they sound alot more muted than it does in the wav and ogg vorbis.

    Now I must also admit that the above test wasn't truely fair, I was using different applications for each, winamp for wav and ogg vorbis, and quicktime for the mp4. Origonally I had the impression that mp4 was better, however that was because winamps equalizer was set oldly, I turned it off for better comparison. I tried hard with changing setting in quicktime to make it sound better with no luck.

    Now onto your confusion with lossless compression. This is very similar to .zip, except for music. Taking an uncompressed .wav file (now don't get confused by the loss of audio quality in transfering from an analog source to a digital, thats NOT what this is about), using a lossless compression, you will end up with a file SMALLER than the original wav file, however the EXACT same quality as the original wav file. Therefore if you uncompessed the lossless compressed file, the resulting wav file will have the EXACT same information as the original wav file, no bits are lost/changed. This type of compression is VERY immportant in compressing of files, because if any of the data is changed, the files would become currupt.

    I know I am not going to get anywhere with trying to convince you that converting from an lossy commpressed file (such as a mp3) to another lossy commpressed file (like .mp4) the resulting file will have worse Sound Quality than the original lossy file you started with (mp3 in this case), however I am going to try. The reason for this is because they use different compression methods to get the file as small as possible with the best SQ for that size of file. An MP3 compressed file will remove sound information in certain freqs. and with certain conditions while MP4 will remove sound information for different freq. ranges and different conditions (I do not know enough about each compression method to know all the conditions of removal of sound information to list them however). So from a file where you have already removed information from a certain range of freqs. further compressing it to another lossy format will remove even more information in different freqs. resulting in a file with less Sound quality than the original lossy format.

  10. #40
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    Ok so In summary... i think we can sum all of this up as...

    MP4 is better compression then MP3 but dont use an MP3 as your source for your MP4. Kinda like using your 8 track as the source for burning a cd.


    now my question is compare mp3pro to mp4..... whats the difference there?
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