Idea for a new frontend

**TrickerZ** · 06-18-2006, 08:33 PM

I've been using FrodoPlayer for quite some time now and I've tried RR, CF and a few others, but nothing is ever 100% what I want. So I was thinking, if I made a frontend that was modular in style, using plugins and being able to run and embed anything in a user configurable way, keeping it open source and getting some spin offs and such, it might be nice.

This is the way I see it:
There's a folder that holds a tree of everything in the custom configuration. The EXE will launch a main menu in accordance to a main skin file and that skin file can introduce sub-menus and plugins to use. I was originally thinking that each part could just be a separate EXE, but I'm sure that will make things very slow having to re-acquire resources. That's why I think a plugin architecture would be better, so on load it can reserve all the resources and load them into memory.

The plugins will allow you to have new commands that can be used in your configuration files. I wanted plugins so that if someone doesn't like a specific part, all they have to do is change that one plugin.

An example layout of what I'm thinking:

Main menu config -
* skin jpg/pngs to use
* button links and their corresponding folders
- can be either jpg buttons or jpg and text overlay (so you can use the same jpg for multiple buttons and just change the text)
- links will either load another menu/skin, plugin w/ skin, or exe from the folder
* plugins to load on start
* default menu/plugin/app to load
* other configuration settings that can be added from plugins

sub-menu config -
* basically the same as main menu
* can embed applications much like skinbedder (I hope)

My main goal is to make it easy to use/port stuff that's already out there and collaborate it into one fully adjustable frontend. I think if I can succeed in my application, it could kind of bring a lot of people together so everyone is working on the same project and just improving specific parts rather than trying to reproduce something someone else already has and has done very well. I mean, I'm all for options, but having 10 brilliant programmers working on 10 different projects that all do the same general thing seems like a waste to me.

What does everyone think about this idea? Am I just wasting my time, or would I have backing by other developers?

**Silentbob343** · 06-19-2006, 12:59 AM

I believe there is somebody trying this. He posted about it not too long ago

Road Runnner needs Rework?

**sebberry** · 06-19-2006, 09:24 PM

I would like a frontend that is more OEM in appearance and offers more customization via a enable/disable plugin function.

Something Kenwood or Pioneer -ish in appearance that would allow for easy enabling/disabling of certain features. For example, I would start the system and have a basic menu with the options I have enabled like GPS and music. At the bottom of the screen there would be a simple "configuration" button that would allow the user to turn on and off certain buttons.

So, for people who use the carputer for GPS and MP3's only, they don't have to have video, sat, apps, etc... cluttering up the main screen. If you want it on the main screen, then simply enter setup, then enable and disable the buttons.

I suggest a basic OEM look because it would be simple to work with, and also look less aftermarket-ish reducing the possibility of thieves suspecting some sweet hardware in the car.

**DarquePervert** · 06-19-2006, 09:43 PM

Here's the way I see it...
There are several top-quality front-ends available. They all have strengths & weaknesses. Nearly all are skinnable to create the look and feel you want. They all handle different aspects of the vehicle PC in different ways. None of them are bad pieces of software, and they all have a loyal following, some a larger fan base than others.

Unless you're going to code a front-end that will run in a small amount of memory and be blazingly quick, you're probably not going to do anything that hasn't already been done.

I'm not saying that you should just give up on your idea before you start. More programmers doing their thing in this arena is certainly a good thing. Innovation and functionality is necessary to really stand out amongst the other apps in the carPC market.

**TrickerZ** · 06-20-2006, 08:33 AM

Both of you are exactly what I'm trying to make this for. I agree everyone is doing a good job in their own ways and that's why I don't want to fully create my own thing, I want to incorporate everything that other people have done into one application through plugins, running external exe and whatever else. As far as the frontend, it may not be quite as easy as clicking enable and disable in the menu to remove things, but it will certainly be easy to get rid of the things you don't want by removing them from the skin file. A simple removal of a line and that piece is gone. That's not to say someone couldn't create a skin that can dynamically change the appearance of the frontend with a configuration menu though, but for starters I see everything being modified through INI or XML. I'm hoping that a lot of the current developers will want to participate in this project and create the ultimate frontend where everyone works on their own part and are not locked into everyone's requests. I just think that if everyone works on what they do best and create a plugin or exe with just those features, it would be better and more efficient and only the parts that need updating would need to be replaced or modified.

I guess it's kind of a big dream, but I have high hopes this project could get off the ground. I'm willing to start it if I get any support, but if everyone is set in their ways and doesn't feel like making a difference, my effort is futile.

**sebberry** · 06-21-2006, 02:40 AM

My issue with skins is while they provide great flexability for those who want lots of distracting colors and graphics, they make it harder for those who want a simple, OEM look.

I realize that I can edit skins in Roadrunner or whatever, but who really needs an apps and dvd video button? Watching videos while driving? not for me thanks. It seems like everytime I download a skin, it is difficult to remove buttons on the first page (of a two page menu) and move buttons from the second page onto the first...

I do like the idea of a one front-end does it all kinda program - the trouble is that the plugins would likely have to all be developed in the same language and I don't think that happens.

**liquid_smoke** · 06-21-2006, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by TrickerZ

I've been using FrodoPlayer for quite some time now and I've tried RR, CF and a few others, but nothing is ever 100% what I want. So I was thinking, if I made a frontend that was modular in style, using plugins and being able to run and embed anything in a user configurable way, keeping it open source and getting some spin offs and such, it might be nice.

sounds like RoadRunner to me, as far as application design i seriously doubt you'll be able to get someone to code the app the way you want it (unless you pay them), even if your ideas are good. You best bet is to find a frontend that lets you custimize as much as possible and thats hands down Road Runner.

for those that want a simple skin and remove buttons etc, again Road Runner, but you will have to get your hands dirty and honestly in the end, its the best option (to get your hands dirty) as you will get exactly what you want and nothing more. When most people design skins they try to make it appeal to the most users so there will be buttons etc that maybe you dont use. Its the same with almost any application ever written. The only way to make it 100% perfect IS to get your hands dirty either with code or skinning.

**TrickerZ** · 06-21-2006, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by sebberry

My issue with skins is while they provide great flexability for those who want lots of distracting colors and graphics, they make it harder for those who want a simple, OEM look.

I realize that I can edit skins in Roadrunner or whatever, but who really needs an apps and dvd video button? Watching videos while driving? not for me thanks. It seems like everytime I download a skin, it is difficult to remove buttons on the first page (of a two page menu) and move buttons from the second page onto the first...

I do like the idea of a one front-end does it all kinda program - the trouble is that the plugins would likely have to all be developed in the same language and I don't think that happens.

That's what I'm trying to get at. It would be possible to have a dynamic skin where all you would have to do is change the location of a string in the skin's INI/XML and the button would be where you want it, or not there at all. An OEM look would be very easy to accomplish with what I'm thinking. I believe CF does basically what I'm saying with buttons and text overlays, but I haven't looked at it in awhile.

With plugins, it is not necessary to use the same language. DLL files have an interface that can be accessed by pretty much any language, so as long as they stay within the API, they could use whatever language they like. For example, at work I have C++ DLL files and a VB program that uses them. I'm pretty sure other languages can do the same.

**TrickerZ** · 06-21-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by liquid_smoke

sounds like RoadRunner to me, as far as application design i seriously doubt you'll be able to get someone to code the app the way you want it (unless you pay them), even if your ideas are good. You best bet is to find a frontend that lets you custimize as much as possible and thats hands down Road Runner.

for those that want a simple skin and remove buttons etc, again Road Runner, but you will have to get your hands dirty and honestly in the end, its the best option (to get your hands dirty) as you will get exactly what you want and nothing more. When most people design skins they try to make it appeal to the most users so there will be buttons etc that maybe you dont use. Its the same with almost any application ever written. The only way to make it 100% perfect IS to get your hands dirty either with code or skinning.

RR has a good start and if guino lets me, I'd like to use a good portion of his code in my plugins. It is not what I'm aiming for though. My goals are to have an easy skinning/modding option for the people who are lazy and a more complex, "get your hands dirty" method for people who want a real custom design. I just think making everything modular will make it easy to remove stuff you don't want and have a smaller code base for it. It's like firefox in my mind. You get the nice browser to start, which does the rendering of pages, but then you download all your extensions to make it do everything you want it to. Heck, you could probably turn firefox into a carputer frontend if you wanted.

But from what I'm hearing, it sounds like no one really cares and I probably shouldn't waste my time.

On a side note, I like your LS skins.

**liquid_smoke** · 06-21-2006, 02:07 PM

RR supports plugins and the whole app is pretty small, plus its open source so if you wanted to add to it, take a way from it i believe people are encouraged to do so. Everything that you speak of i believe is possible with RR. The only thing that dosent exist is an easy setup for complete newbs/lazy folk but its very possible to have 2 levels of configuration options. Some one just needs to set it up, all the pieces are there. Some (chuck) have a skin that lets you change what buttons do on the fly from insdide the skin. You basicly pick the button and choose from a list of commands to assign to the button. There are some other things that can add to the ease of setup/config for first timers /lite users.

I encourage you to take a second look at RR and maybe you can even get involved in teh dev to add some of things your missing to RR.
I just hate to see so many seperate frontend projects here (over a dozen) but only really a few that are actually useable everyday. If everyone came together we could have so much more, instead of the same thing over and over just done differently.

Its not that noone cares though, its just there are so many people makeing there own frontends the butter is spread pretty thin and i think most people know how long it takes to dev a decent front end thats useable.

But, what ever you do good luck, and if you do come into the RR section you'll find a lot of active and helpful users, unlike that other frontend