Printable View
Yes, the application would most definitely need some extensive testing. I would hope that 802.11n would be good enough as long as two parties were within 300 feet of each other. This app would most apt at vehicles within that range, more specifically for vehicles only within that range. wasn't tryin to be harsh earlier, I appreciate the feedback!
-ikon
What i think would be great is the whole driving down the freeway and one guys spots a cop with his radar detector and that would get sent back to the car 300 feet behind him then sent to the car 300 feet behind him and so on. Plus freeway line of site....WiFi can go farther then 300 feet outside. Upcomming traffic jams would also be great to report to all surounding cars based off the gps of said sender.
Maybe some P2P program that auto connects and keeps track of incomming network traffic with some type of ID number and mac address so that it can repeat the information to other carputers. Then you filter the ID so you dont get it sent back to you. First in First out type database that the user can specify file size. That way it wont get to big and you wont get the same info over and over again.
Even better { ID, MAC, UserName, Date, Time, Type of info, Info, Extra, Comments}
Then you could just filter anything more then an hour or two old. and not pass on the info after a given time.
edit: okay for added fun. GPS locator and then the data can be sent online to other users within said range. 20 miles etc
I cant wait to see what you come up with ikon240 :)
profit,
exactly! there is a newer wifi protocol, 802.11p (thinking the spec was supposed to finalize right about now). the spec is for automotive communications... check it out (i haven't searched to see if anyone has mentioned it on this forum... i would be surprised if it hadn't been discussed).
DOT is already working on some things such as safety systems and iPass with this protocol. I get in an accident, my car sends a beacon, the car behind me gets a message and so it propagates in all directions so long as there is a string of cars within range. OR, i just drive thru the ipass, my cars chipset with 802.11p knows all my info and makes the necessary payments.
the problem is if we leave it to automakers, the market for this software will be 10 years away... when in fact, the market will be ready for it within 2-5 years if it isn't already.
I have been working with java for the last year and half and I recently took a position as a flash/actionscript developer, so I am hoping to combine the skills to create something. Sama has a good project started (velocity) that uses a java server backend and a flash skin for the front end, so I suppose I will start there.
more later...
-ikon
I know for a fact that with the right RF WiFi and the Right Antenna you can transmit up to 10 miles easy. The only problem for cars is line of site. After a mile or so you get curviture of the earth and would need the antenna up higher. Also the 10 mile setups have directional dish transiever.
Anyways, i see more of some type of Peer to Peer communication between cars. So that all systems could transmit and recieve data. Not sure how they would be able to multi connect without a router. That should be your first concern. Get like 4 WiFi adapters and try to get them all talking to each other without a router! Otherwise everyone needs a router and a WiFi card.
Maybe 802.11P has that capability built in.
Okay i did some more searching and found this virtual WiFi program that microsoft released. It's only beta but if they finish it it would be perfect for carputers. More then just this application. Imagine being able to connect to every WiFi you drive by! Just adding it here for future refrence. :)
http://research.microsoft.com/netres...fi/default.htm
edit: http://research.microsoft.com/mesh/ <-- another good site on this software
edit: im just going to add to this since mp3car forums would just auto combine anyways. Must be new feature
Anyways, hahahahaha :lol: check this image out. Microsofts website with an image of some microsoft research guys desktop and netscape is loaded on it :)
http://research.microsoft.com/netres...ifi_screen.bmp
first of all,
802.11s - mesh networking!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s
http://www.techworld.com/mobility/fe...?FeatureID=695
second, some more info on 802.11p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11p
looks like p is a better choice for car, just a matter of time and implementation and money, same as everything else.
pretty solid description - just no consumer market for software... yet!
gentlemen, i presume the time is near.
-ikon
yes, worst case, first editions would likely require a router IF you wanted to be the server/host. Otherwise, the client end would just need a wifi card to connect to those with a router.Quote:
Get like 4 WiFi adapters and try to get them all talking to each other without a router! Otherwise everyone needs a router and a WiFi card.
the way i see, there are two types of carpc users. those that want a basic setup and those that do lots of R&D and are always changing their setup with the next best thing. What good would it do for the average user to have a router and serve, if they didn't have a net connection to share, nor radar, nor cameras, nor GPS, etc. Basically if you have all the bells and whistles you won't mind adding < $100 in hardware wiring (router+) and an antenna. I plan to do just this by replacing my terrestrial radio power antenna with something resembling a range extender higher gain router upgrade antenna (connected to a router of course).
one case that an average user might like would be the music and movie sharing, but i guess that is the cost :-/
-ikon
Did you check the virtual WiFi ? They use one WiFi card then build virtual WiFi cards from that one. That would be perfect.
I read all the 802.11p stuff on wikipedia last night. Alot more information then i wanted. I dont think it will be ready anytime soon. Plus i think if the government gets involved in it then i wont! I mean how long after full communication in cars will it be until they start mailing us speeding tickets.
I did read something saying red light and stop sign warning tickets would be possible. So its not like the government doesn't have plans for this. Just not the same as us.
How.....ever.......802.11P do have plans for traffic reports, weather, internet access, fat pass, POI, toll booths, etc. Speeding tickets, tracking....cant wait to hack my new 802.11P car when it comes out. Should give carfax.com alot of info on cars. imagine.....you buy a used car and pul up its info on carfax and you get a 1gig file download that includes every trip oil change dent car wreak that has ever happend to the car. Plus a read out of possible problems with the car and owners lack of maintenance like oil changes...etc...
cant wait for big brother to watch me drive now.
You know, I'm not political, And i dont get involved with the real community (unlike the internet community) But maybe someone should get involved in this 802.11P going into cars. I mean it will be our kids that have to deal with there privacy getting taken away. The security of car communication should be a real big concern to everyone. You think hackers getting into your home pc is bad. Imagine a hacker pulling up your location using the 802.11P protocol and finding out your driving pattern. where you leave your car at night. Or if you leave your car running when you go into get your morning doughnut!! You think car theft is bad now!
Anyways i just finished stealing a movie...downloading....i mean renting, yah renting. Time to go watch it :)
p.s. I still like this p2p car thing. If i new how to program p2p applications i would probably take a stab at it. I mean i do have like 5 pc's in my house. all i would need to test would be 5 WiFi's
I got a ticket in the mail. they have cameras in intersections. if you run a red, even on a right turn, as i did, the cameras take a picture and you get a $75 ticket in the mail. The interesting thing is that these tickets do not go on your record as a moving violation, as a normal stop light violation would. This is because of the artificial systems. Either way, its a political topic already in the city, there is always news about its legitimacy as people are always finding problems with the system.Quote:
Plus i think if the government gets involved in it then i wont! I mean how long after full communication in cars will it be until they start mailing us speeding tickets.
Agreed, its a possibility that the power could be abused, given that the technology becomes pervasive enough - as it sounds like it will. I would hope that the government would give people rights to their privacy in this environment, at least as much as they would or do with your personal computer.Quote:
The security of car communication should be a real big concern to everyone. You think hackers getting into your home pc is bad. Imagine a hacker pulling up your location using the 802.11P protocol and finding out your driving pattern. where you leave your car at night. Or if you leave your car running when you go into get your morning doughnut!! You think car theft is bad now!
As far as hackers... everything is hackable, its a fact of life, as much as it is a fallacy in the systems we build. The hacker would have to penetrate the govt systems that allow the tracking of a specific MAC address as it interacts with roadside sensors... frankly, i think your first point, that the govt would have this technology in the first place, is much more legitimate.
A hacker only has to follow me to my house to see where i keep my car at night. A hacker would have to get past my physical security system if i left my car running to get a doughnut. As far as i know, i would hope that the mere presence of the chipset in my vehicle would not be enough to steal my car or find our where it is at any point in time.
I am excited to see the kind of work done by M$ to build the virtual wifi... i will definitely read the link, i have not yet. However, I plan on running a mac install, so this doesn't do me any good until something similar is available for mac, as I am sure it will be sooner or later. just another reason behind the motivation for java and flash - the most cross platform combination available.
In any case, if properly engineered, the software this thread refers to could be agnostic as to the network protocol implemented behind the scenes. first edition could just use client server mode as originally described. second edition could move some of the brains from the server into the all instances of the client, thus enabling each node to act as both client and server (p2p).
I see a divide that has existed for awhile now... automakers vs hobbyists. as the hobbyists, we control the software that goes into our cars. as the automakers, they control the ability to bring greater integration quicker.
what you are describing would require that they make a law that says you have to have your 802.11p chipset active if you have one, or mandate that all cars must have it by a certain date. frankly i don't see this happening anytime soon, as the automobile is a personal market in this case, but i could be wrong. the latest news i have read suggests that automakers are getting the hint that they should provide expansion for common systems, not try to build the entire system by themselves as they are always behind the pace of the consumer electronics industry. the example cited the way automakers have made accommodations for the ipod. the hope is that the automakers would provide a way to integrate the pc in a similar fashion. i won't hold my breath until it gets to that point however, as I feel the automakers will want a bigger cut that comes with the control. It will be interesting to see if the consumers can force the automakers to give them options: pre-built infotainment system or plug-in empty canvas for custom build with all the same potential for vehicle system integration in both options.
meh, sorry for the novel, thats all for now.
-ikon