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Thread: First impressions, bugs and features of Infill G4 & Street Deck 1.1.0.0

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by parksgm View Post
    Sorry, but most of the "bugs" you list are not bugs at all...
    not exactly, bugs can be everything from flawed logic to crashes to change requests..which is what chaning the button sizes are.

    A change request is a change request no questions asked, the only thing that seperates them are priority. A crash bug is higher priority than making the buttons smaller.

    as part of the end-user community and if most end-users agree on 1 change request..and im assuming plenty of end-users complain about the size of button, it then becomes a change request. otherwise it is not a product catored to the users. this is what you get into when you want to run a business that deals with customers, you have to support the system and the software and listen to the input of the end-users. and so far to my understanding the SD team has been doing that..just slowly..as they probably have a very limited team and changing the button sizes are not really a crucial priority.

    i do appreciate the developer package, however most users are not technically inclined to spend hours just so they could make some tiny changes.

    other than that i have no problems with SD.

  2. #12
    FLAC is for flaccid parksgm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MastaShake View Post
    not exactly, bugs can be everything from flawed logic to crashes to change requests..which is what chaning the button sizes are.

    From Wikipedia:

    A software bug (or just "bug") is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended (e.g., producing an incorrect result). Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design, and a few are caused by compilers producing incorrect code. A program that contains a large number of bugs, and/or bugs that seriously interfere with its functionality, is said to be buggy. Reports detailing bugs in a program are commonly known as bug reports, fault reports, problem reports, trouble reports, change requests, and so forth.

    I realize this is splitting hairs, but I just didn't think it was correct for the OP to create such a massive post that implied by its title that everything contained within was a bug...people thinking about purchasing SD might justifiably be scared away by a post like that, and not have the ability to differentiate design limitations of the program from the program crashes that most people associate with the word "bug".

  3. #13
    Constant Bitrate DAE51D's Avatar
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    you say tomato, I say tomato

    Quote Originally Posted by parksgm View Post
    I realize this is splitting hairs, but I just didn't think it was correct for the OP to create such a massive post that implied by its title that everything contained within was a bug...people thinking about purchasing SD might justifiably be scared away by a post like that, and not have the ability to differentiate design limitations of the program from the program crashes that most people associate with the word "bug".
    Just in my own defence, the title was "First impressions, bugs and features of Infill G4 & Street Deck 1.1.0.0", so I did in fact say it was everything. And in my world / companies I've worked for, as MastaShake said, a bug is everything (we call them CRs or Change Requests) and there is a type: defect, feature, tweak and a severity: blocking, crash, major, minor.

    Here is a bug tracker system I wrote called "Roach". (if anyone wants a copy, let me know -- hint hint SD team) http://www.daevid.com/examples/roach

    It illustrates the point better. this version is a bit old. we actively use this tool at Lockdown Networks, and so I have much newer versions. I just don't always update the example one as it's sort of a pain for little gain.

    http://daevid.com/gfx/tC
    Infill G4. StreetDeck.
    Installed 09/17/07

  4. #14
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    I agree with you. Most of the things written by the OP are not necesseraly bugs as they are requested features...althought he did name the thread appropriately..

    just so everyone is clear on this..i think SD is an amazing piece of software..the gesture feature alone is a selling point for me..(oh them gestures)

  5. #15
    Constant Bitrate DAE51D's Avatar
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    I added more bug/features/whatever to my list for anyone who cares...

    http://daevid.com/gfx/tC
    Infill G4. StreetDeck.
    Installed 09/17/07

  6. #16
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    Again - DAE51D - many of the true bugs that you have mentioned in your post have already been properly entered as bug reports in the bug reporting forum. I'd suggest you take a read through there to see the known issues.
    Jan Bennett
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAE51D View Post
    • more power to the USB ports, or more USB ports in the back
    • needs illuminated eject and power buttons. opening the display, you can't see them at night.
    • the harness should have the ends pre-stripped like the (toyota) adapter harness was. it's tedious to have to snip all those wires.
    • the fan is a tad noisy. it's better when all sealed up in the car, but you can still hear it. if you're an audiophile listening to soft passages (like classical or something) this is a problem as you can hear the fan humming along.
    • the eject button is too easy to hit. it should be a double tap or long hold or in the upper right corner.
    • holding the volume up/down does change the volume, but the indicator "meter bar" on the right doesn't update until you release
    • {10/03/2007} When you go into suspend, the fan should shut off or go into a very slow spin if any cooling is needed. It's too loud to keep running and it's just a waste.
    • {10/03/2007} There should be an external line in on the G4. There is a software setting for it, but no HW way? For example, to hook up an external 1/8" of a Zune or something that a friend might bring in the car.
    The G4 is a product manufactured by Infill in Korea. We do not have direct control over the hardware. We are only an importer of the G4.

    • overall, I think the buttons are way too wide and waste valuable screen real-estate
    • in many cases there could be two columns of buttons
    • some buttons are way too thin (like the setup/configuration screens)
    This is a design that our lead developer has determined to be the safest most effective use of screen realestate. Part of the beauty of StreetDeck is that you can create a new skin to make StreetDeck look how you want...because what you want is going to be different from what the rest of the world wants.

    • the version shows as 1.1.0.0, however I installed 1.1.0.0d (the 'd' should be displayed or stop using the letter and just call it 1.1.0.4)
    This is something that Chuck has decided on. He has been following a standard for versioning since the beginning.

    • the onscreen keyboards should be QWERTY ! or at least have an option to show it as such
    See #1 in this post: A few suggestions

    • related to G4 hardware, it's too easy to hit the eject button. perhaps a confirmation dialog before opening? or make eject a double tap or long hold action.
    See above about G4 hardware requests.

    • my mute button doesn't work?! it 'chirps' but doesn't actually mute sound
    Not sure we have enough info to troubleshoot here...

    • selecting the camera causes a catastrophic lockup or BSOD. usually I see something about "vtdisp.dll". I don't have a camera installed even.
    A proper bug report with a log file would be needed to go any further with this.

    • the huge "Mute" text is just silly. it looks so out of place and awkward. Why not make the upper right speaker in red, and show the classic icon of a speaker in a circle with a line through it.
    This is how Chuck has determined it needs to be. This feature is probably skinnable. Personally, I prefer it because I can look down and see immediately that the audio is muted instead of turning up the audio and not getting anything.

    • toggle fullscreen is always on top. that's irritating when you want to quickly switch to XP desktop to fire up you WiFi or something. There should be a button to "minimize".
    This is against the design intensions of StreetDeck. StreetDeck is designed to be used only. We do not want the user to access the Windows Desktop. StreetDeck is designed to be a mass market consumer friendly solution. Making it so that users have to access Windows to do anything goes against the core intention of StreetDeck.

    • when returning from standby, SD should remember EXACTLY the screen you were in
    http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/stre...me-screen.html

    • eye-candy feature: when I press keys on my real USB keyboard, light up the SD keys on the virtual keyboard
    Might be skinnable

    • all keyboard/searches should HIDE the keys/letters that I can't choose (like the 'contact search' does). it really helps when driving as you don't have to hunt and peck so much.
    This is a feature request and will require a lot of programming time. If enough people ask for it it will be put on the list of things to do but it will be at the bottom of the list as there are many more pressing issues currently.

    • the text in some setup screens is really big and in a box that makes it scroll - huh?! why would you think that was good?
    Not sure I understand where you're talking about here.

    • {10/03/2007} dimming (night mode) does not go nearly dim enough. the screen is so bright at night, it's blinding -- thank God the Scion tC has that shade I can pull down. The settings should allow me to set the dim all the way to black if I want.
    StreetDeck is not designed to solely be used with the G4, it's designed to be purchased as a stand-along piece of software that can be used on other PCs and screens as well. In my car, going to night mode in StreetDeck is actually perfect, going any darker would make it unreadable. I point this out to show that there are others needs that need to be looked into here, not just those with the G4.

    • I strongly believe you need to read "outlook.pst" files. directly. I want to see my tasks and calendar whenever I turn on SD. plus the contacts could be used with the PHONE module.
    Integrating a calendar is something that the developers have determined to not be a highly needed feature. It's on the list of things to do, but as mentioned above, it's low on the list for other more pressing issues.
    • WiFi indicator. This should be a simple icon (think winXP wifi indicator in taskbar). the icon should illustrate signal strength and be a button that either wraps (ideally) or at least triggers the windows wifi applet so I can get online quick and easy. bonus points if the icon shows ESSID, IP, WEP. ideally if this module lets me connect via the SD GUI, it should have an option to filter out secured AP's and an 'auto-hop' feature would be great!!!
    This could easily be done with a DigitalMod and a new skin.

    • Why only 10 presets?
    Apparently Chuck believes that's all that's needed.

    • Ability to name presets (ideally also a 'station name' in lieu of RDS) I want to be able to see "90.5 WBER - Dance Music", etc.
    • move the 'Add' button to the left, freeing up a 'button space' for the next bullet item
      instead of only showing 4 radio buttons, show 5 that are 1/2 width
      if (# buttons == 10) then button.label = 'delete'. (it's silly it still says 'add', but then alerts when i try to)
    Skinnable

    • I should be able to use the visualizers with radio (I can for CD and MP3)
    That's a feature request.

    • categories would also be nice feature
    This is a feature request.

    • Queue music menu should remember where I left off and show last or current song in display list. it's frustrating that it always resets to my first alphabetical MP3 or #1 CD track
    This is a setting within the music module settings.

    • the gray bar with the song is too big and truncates the track name. it needs to adjust the font dynamically, or just pick a smaller point size font.
    Can you post a screen shot?

    • also, the timing seems set too fast or something as it's very choppy and not smooth at all.
    This seems like it's more of a perfomance setting/issue rather than a software bug.

    • the 'now playing' screen (with the album cover and 1-5 stars) should show genre, total track time, time left, etc.
    This should be skinnable. Personally, I don't want all of that information on a screen for simplicities sake. There's also the fact that not all MP3s that people have has this information filled in.

    • the 'now playing' screen should have ALL the play, pause, FF, RW, stop, next, prev, etc.. visible all the time, why do I have to make it float up from the bottom, there's nothing else on that page but a big blank area.
    This should be skinnable. The now playing screen is designed to be a simple, no frills screen with little distraction.

    • the floating controls needs a "play/pause" button (like VIDEO module has). Yes, I know you can use gestures, now. it's not intuitive or consistent to not have pause option.
    Should be skinnable.

    • the visualizer needs a way to change. AFAICT, the only way to change it is to keep toggling in and out of 'now playing' / 'visualize' mode. that's annoying. how about if you use a next/prev gesture on the top of the screen it switches visualizer, and anywhere from middle down (same gesture) works as it does now.
    This is a feature request.

    • visualizer should overlay the artist, track, length, stars. this should be an option to set the time between displays (and at the start of each new track). it's annoying to have to switch out just to see what the song is i'm hearing.
    This would have to be possible through WMP as it is now.

    • as mentioned with the RADIO module, there should be two columns of 5 1/2 size buttons when you enter this module.
    This should be skinnable.

    • there needs to be a dedicated "CD" button on the left side. scrolling to the bottom of some list is counter-intuitive. button should only show if CD is in drive.
    Skinnable

    • the same could be said for an "iPOD" button on the left too. button should only show if iPod attached.
    Skinnable

    • when I search for a song and select it, DO NOT auto-play, give me a menu with 'Play Now', 'Play Next', 'Add to Playlist', then when i click the left arrow (upper right) it should take me back to the same search results!
    Feature request

    • if a track is selected to play next, it should indicate so next to it
    Feature request. Might be skinnable

    • if a track is in the playlist queue, it should show the # in line
    Does WMP currently do this?

    • I have 15000 songs, 1300 albums and 940 artists... there has to be a better way to search. holding the down arrow stops after six screen fulls. always. (bug).
    That's probably because it's a right click setting for the touch screen of the G4.

    • Take a queue from the way the iPod works here. holding the arrows should start slow then accelerate, then just show big alphabetical letters superimposed till I stop on one. Even better would be to let me just use letter gestures on the search screens. So if I swipe "M", it doesn't jump to the MUSIC module, it jumps to the first artist/song/album that starts with "m".
    The developers need to take into account that on most touch screens, the drivers are set to where if you hold down on the screen, the right click menu comes up. So implementing this in StreetDeck would cause problems here.

    In regards to the gesture...I know there have been times when I'm searching for music and realize I need to get back to the nav quickly to see what I'm supposed to do next. Disallowing this would cause problems for many people.

    • {10/03/2007} Deleting a song puts you in some limbo state. You have to go back to select the music again, but you don't know where you were because it resets the list to the top.
    Not sure I follow.

    • {10/03/2007} When in the song detail page, when you pull up the controls bar, as you press FWD/BKWD, the big gray bar shows up which is annoying b/c you're already on the song detail, you don't need to see that again.
    Not sure I follow.

    • {10/03/2007} The little bargraph EQ that plays over a track name is FAKE!? That's so dissapointing.
    This is called a Spectrum Analyzer. If WMP cannot pull this information from the file, it will overlay fake data. There is a way to turn it/on off in the music settings.

    • {10/03/2007} There needs to be a way to 'pin down' the control bar so it doesn't go away.
    Should be skinnable.

    • {10/03/2007} The Visualizers need to a way to show the current track info superimposed over them all the time, or possibly with a timer so every x seconds the song info will show up again and again.
    Isn't this the same as you mentioned above?

    • {10/03/2007} if you have the control console up and in the queue'd music view, it doesn't change the queued music track listing!? it should jump to and highlight whatever song you just FF/RW to!
    If you feel it's a bug, report it as such using the bug reporting process.

    • {10/03/2007} what is the distinction between the highlight and the bargraph EQ anyways. bargraph seems to be song that's playing, but the highlight just seems useless.
    Because the Spectum Analyser can be turnd off, which many people do.

    • {10/03/2007} I could not figure out how to play an audio CD that I had in the drive which was stopped. I tried to choose "D:\" but nothing happens. I had to eject and re-insert the CD.
    This sounds like a machine/user specific issue. I've never had this problem, and I have to play CDs for juding/showing purposes.

    • {10/03/2007} On now playing screen, there is 'add all by _____' there should also be 'view all by (artist/album)' buttons so that you can pick and choose songs easier.
    If this is possible in WMP, then it should be skinnable.

    • I did press the DVD button and it goes windowed and locks up. VTDISP and VTMINI.SYS errors then a nice B.S.O.D.
    Are you running the latest image of the G4? You might want to contact the store to see about getting the latest image if you don't already have it.

    • the search button says "Save", which is confusing.
    If you believe it's a bug, please use the bug reporting process to report it.

    • YouTube module would be nice feature.
    This is something that another user would need to implement as a Digital Mod.

    • the little swoopy upward arrow (which i read as previous screen) sits over the first picture on each screen. that's nice and all, except when you press it, the picture that it's covering shows, rather than going 'back'... at least that's how I expect it to work and am confused by it.
    Screen shots please.

    • the "1 out of 33" at the bottom never changes? it should be what _page_ I'm on and should tell me something like this: "page: 2/7 pictures: 33"
    The fact that it never changes should be a bug report, how you want it to look is a feature request.

    • if you search for some pictures, then view one, then use the prev/next buttons, you're not limited to the search results?!
    If you feel it's a bug, then please use the bug reporting process to report it appropriately.

    • the picture name, date, etc in upper left is way too small a font and white color is even harder to see. maybe a font with some shadow to it would stand out more
    Should be skinnable. I know I don't care about that information when looking at pictures in the car...

    • previous and next gestures should change picture, not music (or implement my 'visualiser idea' above, where the screen is divided so top half is prev/next pic, bottom half is song)
    Music is used probably 20 times more than pictures. Requesting the gestures to change to be more friendly for a lesser used module probably won't happen. Feel free to bind whatever guestures you want on your personal machine though. It's possible through the input settings.

    • "Graphs" should be the topmost button and on by default when the module starts
    You can skin this. Other users might prefer it the way it is now.


    • what good is this 'Relay' thing? it shouldn't show up unless i have 'relays' or whatever I'd need to actually use it
    It's for relay control. It's there to show functionality...the same way all of the buttons on the home screen show up even if you don't have the hardware installed to use them. If you don't want it there, you can make a new skin and remove it.

    • ability to record all the sensors (think blackbox on airplane). reset the log file each time SD starts
    This is a feature request and would have to be something allowed by the various OBD-II scanners on the market.

    • my Elmscan5 shows me like 8 pages of data using the ScanTool freeware, but SD only shows me a handful of them
    That's because StreetDeck is designed to work with a number of scan tools since there's literally hundreds on the market. StreetDeck shows the most needed graphs. If you would like to see more indepth information you can write a Digital Mod to show you that information.

    • also the font is way too big (again)
    Again, Chuck (who has a masters degree in this stuff) has determined that this is the easiest, most effictive use of realestate for a touch screen in a car. If you would like to change it you can make a new skin.

    • There desparately needs to be a way to pre-download all the textures, at multiple magnifications, for a given region. Say, input a ZIP code and a radius (50 miles). This could be a command line tool or whatever, as you'd only do it from home or something once in a while anyways. no pretty GUI needed.
    There is a Digital Mod already written for this. Unfortunately, due to the terms of use, we cannot implement something like this.

    • I only have the 8 tiles or so around my house (where I was connected online at the time i fired up the GPS), but now if i switch to hybrid mode anwhere else, SD just shows the same tiles of my home area, yet I'm nowhere near that area! WTF.
      need ability to mark current location as a favorite. As in, you drive somewhere (not a created route), then you want to "pushpin" that spot.
    I've used this feature in my car and on my laptop and I've not run into this issue. If you think it's an issue, I would recomend reporting it as a bug.

    • the actual route/pathing needs some work. I was leaving my gym and just for fun had SD navigate me, and it was WAY WAY off base as to the best way to go. TomTom never has any problems, and that's running on my Treo650 smart phone!
      SD is too damn persistent. I purposely ignored the path it told me to go (knowing my way was better), and it must have 're-routed' and insisted that I turn around or various other things to get on the path it wanted me to take earlier. It wasn't smart enough to re-route a new path trajectory. One thing I found really disturbing was that at one point, it literally wanted me to jump on the highway only to get off in like 1 exit, yet if I just drove straight (as I *do*), I would be about 2 miles shorter distance, as the highway curves around.
    That's not StreetDeck. StreetDeck utilizes the Map Point mapping engine. This has been covered in great detail elsewhere on the forums if you would like to read up on it more and what has already been discussed and where we stand with this situation.

    • the "character" compass indicator is kinda lame looking. it should be a better font, and it's also not centered/lined up correctly.
    This might be skinnable.

    • and it's astonishing that you can't navigate to a contact's address. Again, I can't sress enough how you should be using/reading outlook.pst files integrated into SD more.
    Considering they aren't linked at all, I'm not sure why that's astonishing? It's not something that's currently implemented. Since Bluetooth phone support is still in beta testing this isn't a feature that is even being coded right now.

    • {10/03/2007} There needs to be a way to have the GPS voice talk over the music. Starting and stopping the music is just irratating.
    SD mute during speak.

    • {10/03/2007} Most of the map text (like street names) is upside down?!
    See #3 in this post: A few suggestions

    • {10/03/2007} The POI icons should be vertical planes, not flat on the road -- look at how TomTom does this.
    Again, StreetDeck utilizes Map Point for mapping. This is how Map Point shows POIs.

    • {10/03/2007} The search button is 'red' but in other search modules (music, video, etc) the button is silver.
    This is a bug that is already reported and has been addressed in the next release to come.
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  8. #18
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    • toggle fullscreen is always on top. that's irritating when you want to quickly switch to XP desktop to fire up you WiFi or something. There should be a button to "minimize".
    This is completely against the design of StreetDeck. StreetDeck is designed to be used only. We do not want the user to access the Windows Desktop. StreetDeck is designed to be a mass market consumer friendly solution. Making it so that users have to access Windows to do anything goes against the core intention of StreetDeck.
    I think you are missing his point here. Its not really a function of promoting or not, the toggle full screen. You provide the option to toggle it when the vehicle is not moving. What he is complaining about I find quite annoying too. SD wants to stay ON TOP. Makes it very difficult to do anything else WHILE PARKED with the computer. When you do toggle to window mode, there SHOULD be a minimize button to get SD out of the way for other window functions. After all, isnt that why there is a toggle full screen button??
    'Burb-puter - worklog

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedGTiVR6 View Post
    This is how Chuck has determined it needs to be......
    .......Apparently Chuck believes that's all that's needed.
    This keeps coming up, and it bothers me to a point. Chuck, and the rest of the crew have done a spectacular job with SD. I do not want to discount that one bit. But in order for SD to be a continuing sucsess, its not all about Chuck. Its about the end users of the software. I have noticed many times now that 'Team SD' is very critical of users opinions, questions, comments. It almost feels abrasive to me at times. This thread is one of them. Quite honestly, if it werent for the gestures SD has to offer, this attitude would have turned me away, and I would have gone with Roadrunner. I think SD is a great product, but its obvious in its early stages still. Any of our comments/suggestions should be taken somewhat more openly, and considered as time goes on. Not beat down, saying its not a bug, or its already submitted in a bug report. We have here a very nice concise REVIEW of Streetdeck, and he is adding to it to help other users and 'Team SD' out. Why berate the guy for repeating some things that may be listed in a more scattered manner?
    'Burb-puter - worklog

  10. #20
    FLAC is for flaccid parksgm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangus580 View Post
    We have here a very nice concise REVIEW of Streetdeck, and he is adding to it to help other users and 'Team SD' out. Why berate the guy for repeating some things that may be listed in a more scattered manner?
    ...except that it was submitted as a bug report, and not a review of any sort. I think it was just in the wrong place. The thread was moved, so that's an issue no longer.

    Any of our comments/suggestions should be taken somewhat more openly, and considered as time goes on. Not beat down, saying its not a bug, or its already submitted in a bug report.
    Sometimes, saying "it's not a bug" or "it's already been submitted" are the most appropriate answers. The inherent forum limitations make it difficult to see what has already been posted without some extensive reading, and I know from experience that can be a daunting challenge for a newer user or one who is not "up to date" on the posts surrounding a product. However, if a more knowledgeable user is aware that a particular issue has already been addressed at length elsewhere, that should be pointed out, as there's no sense in having essentially the same discussion posted a second time.

    I don't have any relationship with SD at all (other than being a customer). However, I have been around the forums for a relatively long time now, and my perspective on the use and utility of the forums has changed somewhat. It is CRUCIAL to maintain good organization of information posted, as otherwise good ideas are lost amid the resulting chaos. It is also important to avoid creating multiple parallel threads discussing the same issue, as this also leads to idea loss among the clutter. I make both of the above points because the forum admins are saddled with the herculean task of maintaining order while still promoting open discussion...and the attempt to balance the two is a fluid, ongoing process.

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