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Thread: What is the hold up? (BT)

  1. #11
    Constant Bitrate
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    Chuck,

    We did a lot of work on echo cancellation at MS on the SYNC project. We don't have the same problem you are describing as we know exactly what hardware we are using and have highly tuned thread priorities to ensure that there is very little delay.

    I will double check with our audio engineers to find out the details, but what I do recall/know is that while doing our testing we dicovered that certain phones performed considerably worse than others. After much digging around we discovered that one big parameter is whether the phone has its echo cancellation turned off or not. Most phone will comply with the command to disable echo cancellation but some don't. In the case when they deny the request we disable our canceller as they interfere with each other.

    Also, an echo cancellation based on same source base is (or soon will be) available with Windows Vista. While I understand that most CarPC users do not run Vista, I wanted to throw this out there. I will follow up on our end and see what more information I can provide.

    Mark

    p.s. To those who want a BT solution without echo cancellation - please don't ask SD to do this. It will sounds TERRIBLE to the point that it will not be useable! Echo cancellation is absolutely critical to any phone integration.

  2. #12
    FLAC is for flaccid parksgm's Avatar
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    Why not disable the audio over bluetooth function for now...I remember from looking around in the dev environment that many other components to allow basic phone functionality in the car are already present. At this point, I'd be happy if SD would just show me incoming calls, allow me to accept or reject them, and allow me to dial the phone from SD.

    The noise cancellation issue sounds like it is computer, not BT hardware, dependent. So, why not enable BT (perhaps even with a generic dongle) in the next update, placate customers who have been waiting for implementation for a long time with partial functionality, and continue to work on the noise cancellation issue for a future software update? I think there would be many users who would appreciate such a compromise...

  3. #13
    Newbie onidragon's Avatar
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  4. #14
    Variable Bitrate
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    Quote Originally Posted by parksgm View Post
    Why not disable the audio over bluetooth function for now...I remember from looking around in the dev environment that many other components to allow basic phone functionality in the car are already present. At this point, I'd be happy if SD would just show me incoming calls, allow me to accept or reject them, and allow me to dial the phone from SD.

    The noise cancellation issue sounds like it is computer, not BT hardware, dependent. So, why not enable BT (perhaps even with a generic dongle) in the next update, placate customers who have been waiting for implementation for a long time with partial functionality, and continue to work on the noise cancellation issue for a future software update? I think there would be many users who would appreciate such a compromise...
    This was exactly what I was suggesting as well. As a paying customer of SD I would love a 90% complete BT option then no BT option with the occasional "we are working on it" replies. My main function of BT would be for using SD to alert me when an incoming text/call is coming in and then me reaching over to pick it up I am fine with that.

  5. #15
    Raw Wave god_of_cpu's Avatar
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    Yeah, I tried the echo cancellation on Vista. Its there already, but its still a sound card hardware issue. I've seen it working and it definitely works good when the hardware is there, but it didn't work with any of the USB sound cards I tried. Theres even an echo canceler built into XP, but again, no practical sound cards supported it. I've played with several software echo cancelers already and really they just don't work unless the right hardware is there.

    Thats very interesting that some phones try to do echo cancellation through bluetooth, have you personally seen this working well using the phone's on board sound processing? I'm seeing the echo cancelers I've worked with get destroyed if the sample rate varies by more then just a few samples a second and its not the latency that kills it, its just variation between the time when the sound was played and when it was recorded.


    Quote Originally Posted by marchello2000 View Post
    Chuck,

    We did a lot of work on echo cancellation at MS on the SYNC project. We don't have the same problem you are describing as we know exactly what hardware we are using and have highly tuned thread priorities to ensure that there is very little delay.

    I will double check with our audio engineers to find out the details, but what I do recall/know is that while doing our testing we discovered that certain phones performed considerably worse than others. After much digging around we discovered that one big parameter is whether the phone has its echo cancellation turned off or not. Most phone will comply with the command to disable echo cancellation but some don't. In the case when they deny the request we disable our canceler as they interfere with each other.

    Also, an echo cancellation based on same source base is (or soon will be) available with Windows Vista. While I understand that most CarPC users do not run Vista, I wanted to throw this out there. I will follow up on our end and see what more information I can provide.

    Mark

    p.s. To those who want a BT solution without echo cancellation - please don't ask SD to do this. It will sounds TERRIBLE to the point that it will not be useable! Echo cancellation is absolutely critical to any phone integration.
    StreetDeck.com Developer (I am Chuck)
    Get StreetDeck at http://www.streetdeck.com
    The Official StreetDeck Forums have moved, please visit us at http://www.streetdeck.com/forum for official support for Streetdeck.

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