Thread: Production Double-Din VGA Touchscreen in the making!

Originally Posted by JC-S60

Maybe ask some questions before getting mad? You'll live longer...
We do use mini-itx, but there is much more than 2D pcb dimensions to consider, like cooling, height of heatsink, placement of components... not to speak about all the testing that needs to be redone once you change a component! We are not a pc-builder that offers a pc in a "mobile" enclosure like so many carpc vendors. We want to offer a complete product, not just another pc.
I have the feeling that MrBMW99 is planning to do the same, only with different priorities, which is good for diversity!

Although it is important to me that you feel good, it would only slow down development more if I also keep a blog.
Respect for MrBMW99

Do we need an extra F1 discussion thread ?

Originally Posted by Mrbmw99

....

FMode,

Do you have a USB audio controller that you are familiar with? I'm looking for a solution to integrate into this product.

I'd like a USB system with 3-5 Stereo line INPUT pairs, that all will show up in the Windows volume mixer. These inputs will be for the external AV in on the back of the unit, as well as for the internal FM radio module. I'm having difficulties finding a good solution. I'm thinking a USB to AC97 converter, and then one of Via's AC97 audio chips would work. But I cannot find a USB->AC97 chip. Then there is USB to I2S, and some I2S ADC's. But the USB->I2S chip I found requires some special firmware and programming (TUSB3200).

Ideas?

- Brett

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/?q=en/usb_audio

for some of those IC's they also have datasheets on their page...
...and they are "USB audio device class 1.0" so no extra software needed...

Originally Posted by Stryker707

I know it may be early to ask and many things are out of your control (ie waiting on foreign suppliers) but what is the approximate status of this? Any ROUGH estimate of a production date? It's asking for a lot but that's why I'm also not asking for anything exact.

Stryker,

We're looking at May right now. However, things have been very slow in terms of getting the parts shipped to us. It may get pushed into June if this continues.

Originally Posted by FMode

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/?q=en/usb_audio

for some of those IC's they also have datasheets on their page...
...and they are "USB audio device class 1.0" so no extra software needed...

I was looking at those too. It would be nice if I didn't have to use 5 of their devices to make the 5 line inputs though. I was looking for one IC that had extra inputs. It seems like they all have 1 pair.

I'll probably look into this and grab a few samples to play with.

- Brett

Originally Posted by camsgs3

Wow did not know this was going on...sounds very interesting..and just in time when im getting a new car, now i have to rethink of me getting a factory NAV sytem with the purchase of my new ride...

Brett this sounds great and cant wait to see a final product, i just hope you produce alot of these cause this will be a hot seller and we all hate to wait for backorder items

Ok a couple of questions for ya(or anyone else)

1. Ok i see that V2 & V3 come with AMP and pre AMP options, does this mean that i wont need a 5CH amp to hook up my RCA wires to it..
See i had a problem with my current car, that lexus(any lexus) does not allow you to use there current AMP w\o a there Head Unit - it will not work, so i had to pull ALL lexus equiment out and add a 5CH AMP(w\RCA inputs) to my trunk..which limits my space..so with these units can i just add my (speaker output from the lexus factory wire harness) LF, RF, LR, RR + sub lines to the back of this unit?

2. Would it be possible to somehow make this unit work with stock steering wheel control's, My lexus GS is going back in about 2 months and Im getting the GX 470 truck, but i want to keep eveything looking stock(im sure most people here want the same)i really dont want to have one of those IR remotes sitting on top on my steering wheel
I find that the IR is not that reliable, i have a USB-IRT hooked up to a Jenson steering wheel remote and i dont get it 100% all the time

3. Some questions regarding 12v power and startup and shutdown controllers
will these units work with carnetix controllers?
what wires will be coming out of the unit?
will there be:
- ACPI(green) & ACPI-RTN(black) from the MB
- 12v out for the screen and MB PSU
- If there is a AMP, there needs to be some kind of Dylon(blue) so we dont get that dam annoying "thumb" sound
- 5v out for USB hubs

im looking forward to this, now i might have to re-talk my wife out of not getting the factory NAV..its only took me about month and a half to talk her into it...oh well

The internal amplifier on the V2 & V3 will be 4chx45w (LF, RF, LR, RR). You'd have to have an amplifier for your subs. If you wanted more than 45w out on the 4ch's, you can use the pre-amp outputs with your external 4ch or 5ch amplifier.

There are steering wheel interfaces available on the market for this purpose. They connect to the steering wheel wiring and convert the button presses into IR. This IR emitter can be mounted at the rear of the monitor where there will (hopefully) be an IR sensor to accommodate these types of systems.

The monitor will have +12v, Ground, IGN and AMP wires. The IGN would come from your CarNetix. This monitor will have an AMP trigger output to turn on your amplifiers, or you can connect them to your CarNetix instead. The V3 model that has the PC inside will have it's own startup/shutdown controller, so no external one is necessary. I think 5v out will be possible. Is this a fairly common requirement? Keep in mind that there will be 4 or 6 USB ports on the back of this monitor for external devices (GPS, Bluetooth).

-Brett

Amps USB controlled?


Road_Dog

To sum up:
its not possible to interface with vehicle/manufacturer electronics of any kind (getting temp from vehicle's oil sensor, request the front windows to lift up...) because there are no standards.

Why ?
Automotive electronics is CRAP - what they all do is bull**** .

Example:
Buy 2 very cheap no-name PC (lets say they cost 300) and try to swap their grahpic cards... After some driver installation i am sure this works.
Now buy 2 luxury-V12-limousines (from different manufacturers) for >50000 and try to swap their engine ecu...

Because there are no standards, different interfaceing hardware/software has to be produced - this limits the pieces which you can sold and therefore raises the price which some customers will stop from buying....

Originally Posted by Mrbmw99

...I was looking at those too. It would be nice if I didn't have to use 5 of their devices to make the 5 line inputs though. I was looking for one IC that had extra inputs. It seems like they all have 1 pair. ...

the datasheets from the really interestings ones are missing there...

..another idea would be to use Intel HDA (the successor of AC97). Then you need a USB to HDA bridge. (then you can have max.16 codecs doing ADC-DAC-I/O)
Can someone please open up his HDA Soundblaster (USB!) and post a photo of the PCB here ?

Sorry I am very persistent! What about open-source ?

Simple example:

Why can't I have a messagebox "Touch here if you want to go into standby instead of shutting down" for 5 seconds if I turn of my M1/2ATX (at railroad crossing, gas station, ...)?
The problem is: How to tell (that I have touched it) this the M1/2ATX ? There is no interface !
(this is something they have forgot...)
BUT: (!!!)
I could modify the source (because its open source!!!) implementing a simple i2c protocoll with the GPIO interface of my motherboard (VIA's and Commell do have these connector) using the I/O lines which are now used for jumpering the M1/M2ATX !

Originally Posted by FMode

the datasheets from the really interestings ones are missing there...

..another idea would be to use Intel HDA (the successor of AC97). Then you need a USB to HDA bridge. (then you can have max.16 codecs doing ADC-DAC-I/O)
Can someone please open up his HDA Soundblaster (USB!) and post a photo of the PCB here ?

Sorry I am very persistent! What about open-source ?

Simple example:

Why can't I have a messagebox "Touch here if you want to go into standby instead of shutting down" for 5 seconds if I turn of my M1/2ATX (at railroad crossing, gas station, ...)?
The problem is: How to tell (that I have touched it) this the M1/2ATX ? There is no interface !
(this is something they have forgot...)
BUT: (!!!)
I could modify the source (because its open source!!!) implementing a simple i2c protocoll with the GPIO interface of my motherboard (VIA's and Commell do have these connector) using the I/O lines which are now used for jumpering the M1/M2ATX !

FMode,

Why can't you? It wouldn't be a feature that would be built into the monitor. The PC software should be able to connect to the micro in the monitor (which it will) over USB, and sense if the vehicle's IGN line is high. When it goes low, the software in the PC should prompt you. At that point the PC can either tell the PSU to shut everything down or not. That's not very hard to do, it's just not in the FE's yet.

I know you've mentioned a lot about open source. What specifically do you need to be open source? Keep in mind that every variable (LCD parameters, IGN status, amp enable, video input, audio input, etc, etc) will be USB accessible and writable.

Regarding the audio, I have yet to find a good solution for this. I am thinking of just using a nice audio switcher system, and not going with digital audio-in. Any objections?

- Brett

Originally Posted by Mrbmw99

FMode,

Why can't you? It wouldn't be a feature that would be built into the monitor. The PC software should be able to connect to the micro in the monitor (which it will) over USB, and sense if the vehicle's IGN line is high. When it goes low, the software in the PC should prompt you. At that point the PC can either tell the PSU to shut everything down or not. That's not very hard to do, it's just not in the FE's yet.

this example should show the power of the open source concept at the example of the M1/2ATX...
I am not doing this because of your unit - exactly the way you described...

Originally Posted by Mrbmw99

I know you've mentioned a lot about open source. What specifically do you need to be open source? Keep in mind that every variable (LCD parameters, IGN status, amp enable, video input, audio input, etc, etc) will be USB accessible and writable.

As we are all not perfect - I am worried about the things which may be forgotten.
...and I would agree if the unit is a complete slave of the PC everything should work beautiful. It is then only an I/O Expander for the PC.

I am currently thinking of a energy managment by your unit. micro is waked by central lock (+12V pulse) (doors unlocked now) - micro silently wakes up PC.
so your unit is also a boot-speed-up

Originally Posted by Mrbmw99

Regarding the audio, I have yet to find a good solution for this. I am thinking of just using a nice audio switcher system, and not going with digital audio-in. Any objections?

- Brett

as (90%? of) the car-pc community have an extra amplifier powering their speakers - they have to install a cheap USB Audio Stick at the back of your unit - (I would recommend this instead of running an analog audio line through the car).
For those without amp they would use backward (outputing PC audio to your unit)...
I would call this acceptable but not nice :/
Whats wrong with a PCM290x ? It seems that the extra audio mix/switching section cant be avoided in any case.
(analog-video switching is IMHO unnessesary crap invented by stupid manufacturers...)

My trunk is only 245liter so I am allowed to state that a VoomPC always fits into your trunk ! (which gives you the much cheaper and powerful Mini-ATX standard)